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Thread: LEO Encounter that was silly in Delaware County, PA

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    So my FL Permit covers me in PA and my friend I was with is a PA resident and has a Delco permit. We were open carrying anyway but as a rule that we go by in Philadelphia County or the suburbs, we wear that "Legally Armed" permit holder on our hip which openly shows the permit when we open carry so that there is no confusion. Never had a problem open carrying there since we wore them.

    We were shopping at this computer store in Radnor. The one that has everything. Not naming names.

    There was a uniformed municipal LEO in the store looking like he was doing shopping after work. We did not see him until he walked in the same isle. He was browsing the shelf looking for something and we were doing the same. He looks up at us and greets us friendly.

    He then stops and looks at our firearms. He then got a stern stance. He started to say "Who are you wizzzzzzzzzz" as he was going to finish the word "with" I seen him eye our permits, which we don't need but have them there for the obvious reason.

    He then says "Oh, you are holders of permits to carry those firearms. Oh. Ok". We both said, "Yep thats correct. I'm a techy kinda guy, did you need help finding something?". At that point I helped him find the external hard drive enclosure he wanted.

    After I helped him he looks at me and says, "Why do you have a FL Permit?" I replied that I was a non-resident who lives across the river but my FL permit covers me here to carry concealed. He shakes his head in agreement and says "Well its valid here so you are good to go. Not like I care but you know."

    Then he turns to my friend who has a PA county permit for the county we are in. He says "And you, well you have a Delco permit, eh? I think your PA residence really compliments your permit". My friend looks at him and says "What do you mean?". He says "Well some states you can get a permit but god forbid you mention to an officer you are legally carrying". He then looks at me and says "I was in NYC on official business for a funeral and I was carrying and afterwards we went to a diner to eat before we headed back and several NYPD officers were very unhappy about it. Even though we were in our dress uniform".

    So we just nod and go "uh huh". So then he says "Yea, you living in PA really compliments your permit because if you are legally carrying we don't hassle you too much about it and you can kinda go wherever you want within the law without worrying about being harassed". We then understood why he made the comment and we shook his hand and said we appreciated it. He also said "You know you don't need to have your permits visible ever but I have to be honest, if they weren't visible to me we would of been having a very different conversation". We agreed and told him we know as sometimes an LEO just is doing his job and checking and that we are legit and when we open carry, it settles confusion with officers and even more importantly, the public. He than says "Yea, no one usually questions an armed security guard who is open carrying. He is in uniform. This is your way of also telling the public, its ok".

    With that he walked away and we kept shopping. We shop in this store all the time open carrying and never any problems. We do sometimes get questions from people that work there that live across the river. We just laugh.

    Good encounter though.

    (I store my firearms in PA by the way)

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    thejax wrote:
    So my FL Permit covers me in PA and my friend I was with is a PA resident and has a Delco permit. We were open carrying anyway but as a rule that we go by in Philadelphia County or the suburbs, we wear that "Legally Armed" permit holder on our hip which openly shows the permit when we open carry so that there is no confusion. Never had a problem open carrying there since we wore them.

    We were shopping at this computer store in Radnor. The one that has everything. Not naming names.

    There was a uniformed municipal LEO in the store looking like he was doing shopping after work. We did not see him until he walked in the same isle. He was browsing the shelf looking for something and we were doing the same. He looks up at us and greets us friendly.

    He then stops and looks at our firearms. He then got a stern stance. He started to say "Who are you wizzzzzzzzzz" as he was going to finish the word "with" I seen him eye our permits, which we don't need but have them there for the obvious reason.

    He then says "Oh, you are holders of permits to carry those firearms. Oh. Ok"
    You missed a good teaching moment by not taking thos permits off once outside Philadelphia.

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    I didn't miss anything. Maybe you don't mind not wearing your permits and possibly creating a stop and chat because someone is concerned about a man with a gun or an officer wants to run a check, thats all you. Your open carry movement is highly respected by me so you get no grief from me on that. You like to educate and I am all for that.

    Just as some people prefer open to concealed, some people also prefer to wear their permits. If you know the Philadelphia Area pretty well, you know any suburb counties are not as gun friendly as the rest of the state.

    I have had stop and chats where police were called because I had a gun. I have also had LEOs just stop in their car when I was walking and ID me.

    Guess what? In these counties, when I started wearing my permit, problems went down to zero and I been testing this for two years now.

    If someone inquires about my gun while wearing my permit, I will educate them. But I wear my firearm for protection, not to prove a point or to educate people. I don't wake up in the morning and say "Hey, I wonder who I can educate today while I wear my firearm?".

    Just as you drive down the street and you are heading somewhere and you don't want to get stopped by a cop because you have places to go. When I carry on foot, I also don't like to be stopped for a chat. Since myself and my friend started wearing our permits we have had zero trouble. I really don't see the reason to take off my permit in an area I may be harassed just so people will inquire then in turn I can educate. Thats all I am saying.

    Long story short, if I leave my house, i have things to do. Anything interrupting the flow of my day would bother me. If I found a way to fix that problem, then kudos to me.

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    I think the "officer" in the OP is full of crap about the NYPD officers. Why would they have a problem with him carrying, especially since LEOSA applies??????

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    some people are just anti gun period or anti you carrying a gun on their beat regardless...most LEO want the citizens armed never know when one will be there to help them in a sticky situation

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    I wish that was true, NYPD has a reputation of giving people from other jurisdictions a hard time, period.


    Steve in PA wrote:
    I think the "officer" in the OP is full of crap about the NYPD officers. Why would they have a problem with him carrying, especially since LEOSA applies??????

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    Mike wrote:
    thejax wrote:
    So my FL Permit covers me in PA and my friend I was with is a PA resident and has a Delco permit. We were open carrying anyway but as a rule that we go by in Philadelphia County or the suburbs, we wear that "Legally Armed" permit holder on our hip which openly shows the permit when we open carry so that there is no confusion. Never had a problem open carrying there since we wore them.

    We were shopping at this computer store in Radnor. The one that has everything. Not naming names.

    There was a uniformed municipal LEO in the store looking like he was doing shopping after work. We did not see him until he walked in the same isle. He was browsing the shelf looking for something and we were doing the same. He looks up at us and greets us friendly.

    He then stops and looks at our firearms. He then got a stern stance. He started to say "Who are you wizzzzzzzzzz" as he was going to finish the word "with" I seen him eye our permits, which we don't need but have them there for the obvious reason.

    He then says "Oh, you are holders of permits to carry those firearms. Oh. Ok"
    You missed a good teaching moment by not taking thos permits off once outside Philadelphia.
    +1. If you were in Randor there is no need for a permit to OC.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    We had a New York detective come here in the early eighties to interview a suspect. On the way from the airport a pickup truck from Miss. passed the car he was in. Displayed in the back window were a Rem 870 and a 30-30 lever gun.

    He started screaming about backup and to pull the perps over. Our guys were puzzled until he pointed out the guns. "That's legal here" No--they are civilians--they can't own guns. Yes they can--and it is common to see this. Relax.

    He was a nervous wreck the whole time he was here!

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    Steve in PA wrote:
    I think the "officer" in the OP is full of crap about the NYPD officers. Why would they have a problem with him carrying, especially since LEOSA applies??????


    Ever talk to a NYPD officer?

    They are like evil drones. :?
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Thundar wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    thejax wrote:
    So my FL Permit covers me in PA and my friend I was with is a PA resident and has a Delco permit. We were open carrying anyway but as a rule that we go by in Philadelphia County or the suburbs, we wear that "Legally Armed" permit holder on our hip which openly shows the permit when we open carry so that there is no confusion. Never had a problem open carrying there since we wore them.

    We were shopping at this computer store in Radnor. The one that has everything. Not naming names.

    There was a uniformed municipal LEO in the store looking like he was doing shopping after work. We did not see him until he walked in the same isle. He was browsing the shelf looking for something and we were doing the same. He looks up at us and greets us friendly.

    He then stops and looks at our firearms. He then got a stern stance. He started to say "Who are you wizzzzzzzzzz" as he was going to finish the word "with" I seen him eye our permits, which we don't need but have them there for the obvious reason.

    He then says "Oh, you are holders of permits to carry those firearms. Oh. Ok"
    You missed a good teaching moment by not taking thos permits off once outside Philadelphia.
    +1. If you were in Randor there is no need for a permit to OC.
    I'm very aware. As I said before, wearing the permit works for me because I don't mind it and I never get questioned. Again, I don't like the flow of my day interrupted.

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    I wouldn't classify anyone ever.

    Sig229 wrote:
    Steve in PA wrote:
    I think the "officer" in the OP is full of crap about the NYPD officers. Why would they have a problem with him carrying, especially since LEOSA applies??????


    Ever talk to a NYPD officer?

    They are like evil drones. :?

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    PA doesn't issue permits, they're licenses. LTCFs. andm why would you display them? that's like carrying one of those ********* concealed carry badges. no one needs to see your 'permit' to carry except in Philly, and the Philly PD isn't going to care, either way.
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    jahwarrior72 wrote:
    PA doesn't issue permits, they're licenses. LTCFs. andm why would you display them? that's like carrying one of those ********* concealed carry badges. no one needs to see your 'permit' to carry except in Philly, and the Philly PD isn't going to care, either way.
    Great question. I mean I felt I already answered it but I will try this again.

    Do I need to wear my permit? No
    Do I need to ever display my permit? No

    Now, if you are a cop or a security guard and wear your gun, usually there is a badge somewhere near it or maybe they are just in uniform.

    Now if I am wearing a gun openly in PA and wearing jeans and a polo but nothing else, it raises questions. "Is he a cop?" "Maybe he is a guy who felt like wearing a gun but is unaware of the laws".

    Listen you do what you want, I will do what I want. The permit makes me very easily identifiable that I am legally carrying. Plain and simple. Its not complicated.

    Maybe you have this thing about gun rights and know its legal to open carry without a permit so you just do it and not care about a stop and chat. Me? I do not like stop and chats. Again, if I leave the house, I am not at home. If I am not home, I must be doing something, going somewhere, whatever. Anyone interrupting the flow of my day bothers me. Now, add a firearm into the mix and usually the police are called and you are questioned then you have to identify yourself and well an hour later they know who you are, they know you are legal, you can go on your way, and now you just wasted an hour of my time.

    Simple fix. I wear the permit. Problem solved. Now, do I recommend anyone wear their permits? No. I recommend to take my advice if you don't like to be bothered. Its not about wearing the permits, its about being stopped when I have places to go.

    So I hope I finally cleared that up. I have not once been stopped in two years after wearing my permit when open carrying. This is my experience. Everyone's elses experiences can vary and my experiences can change at any time.

    If I carry concealed, obviously I don't wear the permit.


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    Now if I am wearing a gun openly in PA and wearing jeans and a polo but nothing else, it raises questions. "Is he a cop?" "Maybe he is a guy who felt like wearing a gun but is unaware of the laws".
    And if I'm wearing a gun openly in Pa. and wearing jeans and a flannel shirt, nobody cares. I certainly don't. Perhaps it has to do with what part of the Commonwealth you're in. Out here in the western part, I've yet to have a problem.

    But, if it makes life easier for you to openly display your license, go for it. I support your decision. To each his/her own.

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    thejax wrote:
    jahwarrior72 wrote:
    PA doesn't issue permits, they're licenses. LTCFs. andm why would you display them? that's like carrying one of those ********* concealed carry badges. no one needs to see your 'permit' to carry except in Philly, and the Philly PD isn't going to care, either way.
    Great question. I mean I felt I already answered it but I will try this again.

    Do I need to wear my permit? No
    Do I need to ever display my permit? No

    Now, if you are a cop or a security guard and wear your gun, usually there is a badge somewhere near it or maybe they are just in uniform.

    Now if I am wearing a gun openly in PA and wearing jeans and a polo but nothing else, it raises questions. "Is he a cop?" "Maybe he is a guy who felt like wearing a gun but is unaware of the laws".

    Listen you do what you want, I will do what I want. The permit makes me very easily identifiable that I am legally carrying. Plain and simple. Its not complicated.

    Maybe you have this thing about gun rights and know its legal to open carry without a permit so you just do it and not care about a stop and chat. Me? I do not like stop and chats. Again, if I leave the house, I am not at home. If I am not home, I must be doing something, going somewhere, whatever. Anyone interrupting the flow of my day bothers me. Now, add a firearm into the mix and usually the police are called and you are questioned then you have to identify yourself and well an hour later they know who you are, they know you are legal, you can go on your way, and now you just wasted an hour of my time.

    Simple fix. I wear the permit. Problem solved. Now, do I recommend anyone wear their permits? No. I recommend to take my advice if you don't like to be bothered. Its not about wearing the permits, its about being stopped when I have places to go.

    So I hope I finally cleared that up. I have not once been stopped in two years after wearing my permit when open carrying. This is my experience. Everyone's elses experiences can vary and my experiences can change at any time.

    If I carry concealed, obviously I don't wear the permit.
    the thing you're not getting is: whether you wear the permit, or leave it in your car, ifa LEO decides he wants to stop you and hassle you, they'll do it anyway. you'll be stopped, he'll demand your ID, and be in violation of the law. the only thing carrying your LTCF openly will do is make it easier for the LEO to violate the law. so, your theory won't work. and, as far as the average person on the street, why the hell would you care if they're bothered?

    if you're so afraid of getting hassled, don't open carry. if you open carry, don't be afraid of getting hassled.
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    And if you do get hassled, be prepared to deal back a ration of **** to the offending officer, as warranted.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    And if you do get hassled, be prepared to deal back a ration of @#$% to the offending officer, as warranted.
    Givin' up the tactical advantage since 2008.

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    I'm not "afraid" of getting hassled. I do not want to get hassled. Please do not put words in my mouth. I think I have explained myself enough to be crystal clear on my stance.

    You tell me my theory "will not work". Seriously? I thought I might have said more than once it already works. Again, situations with other people may differ and my situation could change at anytime. So far my track record is zero issues while wearing it. Thats about two years now.

    You are just aggravated because I am taking an extra step that is not required. So what? Who cares. It works for me.

    You do what you think you should do, I will do what I think I should do. Please enjoy my encounter story and stop analyzing what it is I do if I am within or doing more then the law requires. Thanks.

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    thejax wrote:
    I'm not "afraid" of getting hassled. I do not want to get hassled. Please do not put words in my mouth. I think I have explained myself enough to be crystal clear on my stance.

    You tell me my theory "will not work". Seriously? I thought I might have said more than once it already works. Again, situations with other people may differ and my situation could change at anytime. So far my track record is zero issues while wearing it. Thats about two years now.

    You are just aggravated because I am taking an extra step that is not required. So what? Who cares. It works for me.

    You do what you think you should do, I will do what I think I should do. Please enjoy my encounter story and stop analyzing what it is I do if I am within or doing more then the law requires. Thanks.
    all you're doing is making it easier for LEO to violate your rights. i personally don't care what you do; if you wanna be punked by cops, then fine. just don't expect anyone to care, since you obviously are okay with rolling over for them, and spreading your buttcheeks apart, with a bottle of lube in one hand, and your license in the other.
    Givin' up the tactical advantage since 2008.

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    You tell me my theory "will not work". Seriously? I thought I might have said more than once it already works. Again, situations with other people may differ and my situation could change at anytime. So far my track record is zero issues while wearing it. That's about two years now.
    I open carry. No license showing. So far my track record is zero issues while not wearing it. That's about two years now.

    Of course, I am out towards the western part of the state (right on the border between Central and Western Pennsylvania), so that might have something to do with it.

    But, if wearing your license makes you feel more comfortable, then go for it. Me? At my age I'm fully prepared to give back as good as I'm dealt.

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    jahwarrior72 wrote:
    if you wanna be punked by cops, then fine. just don't expect anyone to care, since you obviously are okay with rolling over for them, and spreading your buttcheeks apart, with a bottle of lube in one hand, and your license in the other.
    I know this isn't supposed to be funny and I shouldn't encourage it, but I'm not too grown up to laugh out loud at that remark, it is pretty funny.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    jahwarrior72 wrote:
    if you wanna be punked by cops, then fine. just don't expect anyone to care, since you obviously are okay with rolling over for them, and spreading your buttcheeks apart, with a bottle of lube in one hand, and your license in the other.
    I know this isn't supposed to be funny and I shouldn't encourage it, but I'm not too grown up to laugh out loud at that remark, it is pretty funny.
    it's okay, i won't tell anyone how juvenile you really are.


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    Now, now. The two of you, stop that right now! Be nice to one another. Agree to disagree.

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    Jaw i am with you on this, how does this guy wear his ltcf ? I mean its not a billboard. I cant believe that little id card could make a bit of difference, and you and i know what we are talking about, there goin to jack him anyhow, cant see it helping. Nice to see you here brother. Mtn Jack

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    If the OP "feels" that wearing his LTCF, or a "Concealed Carry Badge," or a pink tutu makes his OCing less stressful, then who am I, or anyone else, to disagree with him?

    He's not hurting anyone, is he, really?

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