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Thread: No gun sign at local dog park

  1. #1
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    French lake dog park in federal way is city owned and has a no gun sign on the entrance. Isn't that illegal due to the state preemption? I'm taking my dog there and would to open carry. Would I be asking for trouble if I carried anyway?

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    What does it say exactly?

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    DaemonForce wrote:
    What does it say exactly?
    same sign you always see. A pic of a gun and it says "no firearms".

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Yup, sure enough. Park Rules:
    French Lake Park Rules

    This is the only City of Federal Way park where off-leash use is approved. To ensure the success of this park and in consideration of those using the park and those living near the park, the following rules must be followed:

    • Pick up dog feces, cigarette butts, garbage and properly dispose
    • Owners and dog walkers must be in control of their dogs at all times
    • No biting, fighting or excessive barking; muzzle dogs that exhibit dangerous or aggressive behavior
    • Owners are liable for any damage or inury inflicted by their dogs
    • Outside the fenced area, dogs must be on leash; inside, owners must carry a leash for each dog
    • All dogs must be licensed and vaccinated
    • Please no digging (fill holes immediately)
    • Stay away from areas where there is excessive use and wear
    • Bicycles and motorized vehicles are prohibited
    • No animals younger than 4 months
    • No female dogs in heat
    • Remove pinch or choke collars
    • Young children must be closely supervised
    • Respect other park visitors by keeping your dog from jumping on or interfering with other people and their dogs
    • Unattended dogs are not allowed. If you see a dog without an owner, please notify King County Animal Control at 206-296-7387
    • Fires are prohibited
    • Weaponsare prohibited
    • Alcoholic Beverages are Prohibited
    OC residents of Federal Way need to make some calls and send some letters.

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    Exactly. I'm going to make some calls after work before I go there and see what's going on I think I'm gonna OC anyway. I'm breaking any laws am I

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    blackjacket2000 wrote:
    Exactly. I'm going to make some calls after work before I go there and see what's going on I think I'm gonna OC anyway. I'm breaking any laws am I
    Not breaking any laws because this ordinance is automatically repealed by the state RCW 9.41.290 on preemption.

    Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

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    Yes, laws are being broken there, but not by you. The city is the law breaker.

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    Yes, it's preempted. The FAQ's cite what areas the state allows to be off limits to guns

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    blackjacket2000 wrote:
    French lake dog park in federal way is city owned and has a no gun sign on the entrance. Isn't that illegal due to the state preemption? I'm taking my dog there and would to open carry. Would I be asking for trouble if I carried anyway?
    It is preempted but that does not mean you will not be put through the mill.

    With the latest Supreme Court Ruling removing Seattle's Park Gun Ban it would be on your side but you could still end up being cited, court date and hopefully it would end there but could go farther and during that time you could have your firearms confiscated.

    I would suggest calling the Police Chief and ask what their position is on this as to preemption and if they will try and enforce an unenforceable law.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Which would set the city up for a massive civil rights lawsuit after the recent ruling.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    SNIP

    With the latest Supreme Court Ruling removing Seattle's Park Gun Ban it would be on your side but you could still end up being cited, court date and hopefully it would end there but could go farther and during that time you could have your firearms confiscated.

    SNIP
    No SUPREME court ruling yet. The Seattle ban was struck down by a judge of the King County Superior Court. There won't be a Supreme Court ruling unless the City of Seattle pursues an appeal.

    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
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    Lammo wrote:
    BigDave wrote:
    SNIP

    With the latest Supreme Court Ruling removing Seattle's Park Gun Ban it would be on your side but you could still end up being cited, court date and hopefully it would end there but could go farther and during that time you could have your firearms confiscated.

    SNIP
    No SUPREME court ruling yet. The Seattle ban was struck down by a judge of the King County Superior Court. There won't be a Supreme Court ruling unless the City of Seattle pursues an appeal.
    Correct me if I am wrong here, but Federal Way is in King County!

    I believe that since it is in King County and it would support yet another ruling in favor of State Preemption.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Lammo wrote:
    BigDave wrote:
    SNIP

    With the latest Supreme Court Ruling removing Seattle's Park Gun Ban it would be on your side but you could still end up being cited, court date and hopefully it would end there but could go farther and during that time you could have your firearms confiscated.

    SNIP
    No SUPREME court ruling yet. The Seattle ban was struck down by a judge of the King County Superior Court. There won't be a Supreme Court ruling unless the City of Seattle pursues an appeal.
    Thanks Lammo you beat me to it.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    The dog park has a sign that says no guns? I wouldn't worry unless your dog can read. Dang, man. I had to jump on that one!

  15. #15
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Lammo wrote:
    BigDave wrote:
    SNIP

    With the latest Supreme Court Ruling removing Seattle's Park Gun Ban it would be on your side but you could still end up being cited, court date and hopefully it would end there but could go farther and during that time you could have your firearms confiscated.

    SNIP
    No SUPREME court ruling yet. The Seattle ban was struck down by a judge of the King County Superior Court. There won't be a Supreme Court ruling unless the City of Seattle pursues an appeal.
    Sorry I missed typed I meant to say Superior instead of Supreme Court.

    It still should provide assistance in other King County Cases.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    Lammo wrote:
    BigDave wrote:
    SNIP

    With the latest Supreme Court Ruling removing Seattle's Park Gun Ban it would be on your side but you could still end up being cited, court date and hopefully it would end there but could go farther and during that time you could have your firearms confiscated.

    SNIP
    No SUPREME court ruling yet. The Seattle ban was struck down by a judge of the King County Superior Court. There won't be a Supreme Court ruling unless the City of Seattle pursues an appeal.
    Sorry I missed typed I meant to say Superior instead of Supreme Court.

    It still should provide assistance in other King County Cases.
    Correct. I think this decision will be helpful but, if I recall my procedural rules correctly, it is not binding on anyone but the City of Seattle. If for example, there is a challenge to the Federal Way sign, a different King County Superior Court judge could make a different decision.
    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
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  17. #17
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    I have some old holsters that we can put on the dogs....

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    I called the chief of police and the city manager of federal way today and left messages at around 1:00pm. No word back yet, gonna call again tomarrow. Had another good OC on my night walk with my pooch "had to make up not going to the dog park. If I can't get a hold of those two "officials" tomarrow I'll give the police department a call and see what they say. I don't know why I'm beating around the bush. I'll probably OC there tomarrow anyway. But I am gonna bug the hell out of those two till I get an answer from both. I'll definitly post what they say.

    :celebrateIs this supposed to look like the peanut butter jelly time banana. I'm guessing yes but thats so random....

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    blackjacket2000 wrote:
    I called the chief of police and the city manager of federal way today and left messages at around 1:00pm. No word back yet, gonna call again tomarrow. Had another good OC on my night walk with my pooch "had to make up not going to the dog park. If I can't get a hold of those two "officials" tomarrow I'll give the police department a call and see what they say. I don't know why I'm beating around the bush. I'll probably OC there tomarrow anyway. But I am gonna bug the hell out of those two till I get an answer from both. I'll definitly post what they say.

    :celebrateIs this supposed to look like the peanut butter jelly time banana. I'm guessing yes but thats so random....
    May I suggest if you can meet them in person.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  20. #20
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    I could try that. If the difficulty in getting a call back is high then I doubt I'll have much luck in meeting them in person. But its definitly something I could try and probably worth the effort.

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    I am not sure what the big deal is but if you look at the federal way municipal code for parks regulations they do not have a MC that restricts the possession of firearms in their parks. The weapons that the sign refers to is spelled out in FWMC 4.05.220 and consists of fireworks, bows, arrows, airguns, explosives of any kind, and sling-shots. It does not contain firearms in their code. The sign is completely legal.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Yeah, there is a picture of a pistol at the bottom of the sign saying no firearms and a municipal code at the bottom corner. I didn't go today so I couldnt tell you the number but it plainly says no firearms with a picture of a pistol. I do plan on getting that number and looking it up tomarrow. There's definitly something wrong with that sign. Rather a mistake or a concious effort to restrict my right, I don't know, but I'll find out and get it fixed either way.

  23. #23
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    Hmmm. Sounds like an old sign that has not been updated to reflect current municipal code. That is definitely a problem then.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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