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Thread: Boyd County Courthouse

  1. #1
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    In Boyd County, the new County Courthouse located in Catlettsburg KY requires you to go through metal detectors and empty the contents of your pockets to be x-rayed.

    I got wanded because my belt set off the detector.

    All this is required in order to gain entry to the Clerks office on the 1st floor to renew your drivers license. I'm not sure what all offices are located in the new building but know the Drivers License Division is because I just renewed mine.

    The actual court rooms are on the 2nd and 3rd floor.

    They made me put a small leatherman I keep on my key-chain (type with the scissors) back in my truck.

    I was told that the whole building is completely weapons free. I pointed at the guns they were carrying and said, "Well, not completely." They were not amused.

    Are they legally able to keep you from open carrying to the clerks offices?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    rscottie wrote:
    I was told that the whole building is completely weapons free. I pointed at the guns they were carrying and said, "Well, not completely." They were not amused.
    Classic!



    rscottie wrote:
    Are they legally able to keep you from open carrying to the clerks offices?
    I don't think so, but of course, the people with the guns make the rules.

    Most places in Kentucky, including anti-gun Lexington, the city council is off limits, as are all courts and judge's chambers, but not the common areas of the city building where we'd go to renew driver's licenses. We have two new courthouses, one state and one federal. At least one, and probably both, are as you describe. I had to leave my open carry weapon in the truck, along with a knife, when I went into the building to get my concealed deadly weapons license.


    As usual, the security is a joke. I know a very well dressed woman who had a big honkin' pistol in her very nice looking holster purse. She laid the purse on the table next to the metal detector tunnel and it flopped over hard on the side of the heavy gun. The security officer righted the purse and it rolled over and played dead again. She probably had a 3-4 pound pistol in there. She walked through the metal detector and the security officer handed her purse to her without even inquiring about the heavy pistol she was packing.

    Is the Boyd County courthouse a new FEDERAL courthouse? If so, they may be invoking some federal law, in much the same manner that it's illegal to carry a firearm in a US Post Office. If that's the case, then putting the county offices in the federal building sounds like an end run around the spirit and intent of Kentucky law, specifically KRS 65.870. The city or county government is allowed to prohibit concealed carry in most of their buildings, but not open carry on local government property.

    After some more online research and discussion, you may want to see if the Kentucky Attorney General will issue a ruling if there is no relevant example already. It'd be a good idea to have a reasonable assurance of a successful outcome before seeking that ruling, because those tend to be persistent and we don't want an anti-gun ruling on the record.

    I'd like to know more about this too. Can the local government rent space in a federal building and then magically all of their offices are off limits to any firearms except THEIR firearms? That doesn't seem right to me.


    DISCLAIMER:

    I am just a guy on the internets. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.


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  3. #3
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    gutshot wrote:

    Open carry can not be prohibited in a city council meeting.
    Laws confuse me. My understanding was that firearms are prohibited in legislative chambers (where laws are being passed), but I searched the KRS and the only restricted areas I could find were those relating to concealed carry, not open carry.

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/110.PDF

    So, is it true that KRS 65.870 prevents local governments from restricting open carry and the state laws don't restrict open carry? If so, does that mean that the only applicable laws restricting open carry are federal laws?

    I thought I had a good idea about this stuff, but maybe some of what I thought I knew was hearsay and normalcy bias (the way things have been done, as opposed to what the law requires).

    I'm an old dog, but I can still learn new tricks. It just takes a bit longer.

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  4. #4
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    rscottie wrote:
    In Boyd County, the new County Courthouse located in Catlettsburg KY requires you to go through metal detectors and empty the contents of your pockets to be x-rayed.

    I got wanded because my belt set off the detector.

    All this is required in order to gain entry to the Clerks office on the 1st floor to renew your drivers license. I'm not sure what all offices are located in the new building but know the Drivers License Division is because I just renewed mine.

    The actual court rooms are on the 2nd and 3rd floor.

    They made me put a small leatherman I keep on my key-chain (type with the scissors) back in my truck.

    I was told that the whole building is completely weapons free. I pointed at the guns they were carrying and said, "Well, not completely." They were not amused.

    Are they legally able to keep you from open carrying to the clerks offices?
    OAG 97-9

    We recognize access to county offices and local courts may as a practical matter be obtained through shared building entrances and hallways. We can find no authority, however, for the proposition that local courts may ban deadly weapons in county offices located in the same courthouse or courthouse annex as those local courts. Indeed, we note that ownership, operation and maintenance of a county courthouse, generally, are county functions. KRS 26A.090(6);26A.110; 26A.130; 67.080(2)(b); 67.130.

    Of course, the legislative body of a county may act pursuant to KRS 237.115 to prohibit those who are licensed to carry concealed deadly weapons from carrying concealed deadly weapons in portions of buildings owned, leased or controlled by the county. See OAG 96-39. Additionally, a license to carry a concealed deadly weapon does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed deadly weapon into a police station or sheriff's office, a detention facility or jail, or a meeting of the governing body of the county. KRS 237.110(12)(a), (b), and (d). Finally, with respect to the authority of the county to prohibit the open carrying of deadly weapons in a courthouse or courthouse annex, we note the ordinance prohibition embodied in KRS 65.870 extends only to “any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession, carrying or transportation of firearms, ammunition, or components of firearms or combination thereof.”
    (Emphasis added.)

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    gutshot wrote:
    rscottie wrote:
    In Boyd County, the new County Courthouse located in Catlettsburg KY requires you to go through metal detectors and empty the contents of your pockets to be x-rayed.

    I got wanded because my belt set off the detector.

    All this is required in order to gain entry to the Clerks office on the 1st floor to renew your drivers license. I'm not sure what all offices are located in the new building but know the Drivers License Division is because I just renewed mine.

    The actual court rooms are on the 2nd and 3rd floor.

    They made me put a small leatherman I keep on my key-chain (type with the scissors) back in my truck.

    I was told that the whole building is completely weapons free. I pointed at the guns they were carrying and said, "Well, not completely." They were not amused.

    Are they legally able to keep you from open carrying to the clerks offices?
    Circuit Clerks are part of the court system and their offices along with judges chambers, jury rooms, and any other areas occupied by the court of justice are prohibited areas for persons carrying firearms.
    True, but the driver's licensing division is not and that is where the OP had business. That office should be considered adjacent to the circuit clerks office since it is in the same building.

  6. #6
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    gutshot wrote:
    Unfettered Might wrote:
    gutshot wrote:
    rscottie wrote:
    In Boyd County, the new County Courthouse located in Catlettsburg KY requires you to go through metal detectors and empty the contents of your pockets to be x-rayed.

    I got wanded because my belt set off the detector.

    All this is required in order to gain entry to the Clerks office on the 1st floor to renew your drivers license. I'm not sure what all offices are located in the new building but know the Drivers License Division is because I just renewed mine.

    The actual court rooms are on the 2nd and 3rd floor.

    They made me put a small leatherman I keep on my key-chain (type with the scissors) back in my truck.

    I was told that the whole building is completely weapons free. I pointed at the guns they were carrying and said, "Well, not completely." They were not amused.

    Are they legally able to keep you from open carrying to the clerks offices?
    Circuit Clerks are part of the court system and their offices along with judges chambers, jury rooms, and any other areas occupied by the court of justice are prohibited areas for persons carrying firearms.
    True, but the driver's licensing division is not and that is where the OP had business. That office should be considered adjacent to the circuit clerks office since it is in the same building.

    KY drivers licenses are issued by the circuit clerks and drivers license offices are part of the circuit clerks office. See this link:


    http://drlic.kytc.ky.gov/general/general.htm


    Exerpt:

    Location of Issuance All Kentucky Driver Licenses and Identification cards are issued in the Circuit Court Clerk's office in the Kentucky County of residence.
    Yep you got me, lol. That link cinched it.

    That OAG does specifically state that circuit offices are part of court proceedings so since the DL division is part of the circuit clerk, you are right sir.

    I stand corrected.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    What gets me the most is the ban on pocket knives, leatherman multi tools etc. being classified as deadly weapons and not allowed in. Let's see, what can we find in an office that could be used as a weapon? There are fire extinguishers that can be used as a club. Paper weights. Scissors are my favorite. You can't have your pocket knife with a 1 1/2 blade but I bet you can find scissors that have two six inch blades. What about paper cutters? You could yank the arm off one of those and have yourself an instant machete. Even a common item such as a pen or a pencil can be used as a weapon. In Indiana I was told I had to leave my belt in the car because it had metal studs on it. Not spikes just slightly raised metal studs. I looked like one of those gang bangers walking around holding my pants up.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Another item not allowed in the courthouse building is pepper spray. I drove my wife's car and never thought about it when I tried to get my license renewed. I had to take it back out to the car before being allowed access. To add insult to injury, it's a pink pepper spray container! Talk about feeling manly when they asked aloud, "Who's is this?" and I had to answer Mine! LOL

  9. #9
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Beau wrote:
    What gets me the most is the ban on pocket knives, leatherman multi tools etc. being classified as deadly weapons and not allowed in. Let's see, what can we find in an office that could be used as a weapon? There are fire extinguishers that can be used as a club. Paper weights. Scissors are my favorite. You can't have your pocket knife with a 1 1/2 blade but I bet you can find scissors that have two six inch blades. What about paper cutters? You could yank the arm off one of those and have yourself an instant machete. Even a common item such as a pen or a pencil can be used as a weapon. In Indiana I was told I had to leave my belt in the car because it had metal studs on it. Not spikes just slightly raised metal studs. I looked like one of those gang bangers walking around holding my pants up.
    The government isn't concerned about state/city employees having objects to makeshift weapons or blunt objects. The primary objective of governments that fear their own people is always to disarm the population, not the government. It's the classic US versus THEM mentality, with the arrogance of superiority attached.

    This mindset is why we have 170 million dead people from government sponsored genocide in the 20th century alone. Let's hope this genocidal mental sickness abates in the U.S. See http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com

    Banning weapons from court rooms? For that I can make an exception. But banning them from Circuit Court offices and drivers licensing areas? Ummm... No.


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    Statesman wrote:
    Beau wrote:
    What gets me the most is the ban on pocket knives, leatherman multi tools etc. being classified as deadly weapons and not allowed in. Let's see, what can we find in an office that could be used as a weapon? There are fire extinguishers that can be used as a club. Paper weights. Scissors are my favorite. You can't have your pocket knife with a 1 1/2 blade but I bet you can find scissors that have two six inch blades. What about paper cutters? You could yank the arm off one of those and have yourself an instant machete. Even a common item such as a pen or a pencil can be used as a weapon. In Indiana I was told I had to leave my belt in the car because it had metal studs on it. Not spikes just slightly raised metal studs. I looked like one of those gang bangers walking around holding my pants up.
    The government isn't concerned about state/city employees having objects to makeshift weapons or blunt objects. The primary objective of governments that fear their own people is always to disarm the population, not the government. It's the classic US versus THEM mentality, with the arrogance of superiority attached.

    This mindset is why we have 170 million dead people from government sponsored genocide in the 20th century alone. Let's hope this genocidal mental sickness abates in the U.S. See http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com

    Banning weapons from court rooms? For that I can make an exception. But banning them from Circuit Court offices and drivers licensing areas? Ummm... No.
    I agree.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to make a lot of work for others, but I looked for 40 minutes and couldn't find any law that prohibits open carry any place but schools. I'm almost certain it's there, somewhere. I know about the prohibited areas for concealed carry.

    Can someone quickly point me in the right direction? I'm not big on "because I said so" or "that's the way we've always done it". I always want to see the actual law.

    Thanks.

    Buy rice. Buy beans. Buy guns. Buy ammo.
    This is your final SHTF warning.

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    Liberty4Ever wrote:
    I'm not trying to make a lot of work for others, but I looked for 40 minutes and couldn't find any law that prohibits open carry any place but schools. I'm almost certain it's there, somewhere. I know about the prohibited areas for concealed carry.

    Can someone quickly point me in the right direction? I'm not big on "because I said so" or "that's the way we've always done it". I always want to see the actual law.

    Thanks.
    KRS 244.125 Prohibition against possession of loaded firearm in room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink.

    Definition of "loaded" being in KRS 237.060 Section 4


    I'm still looking for the one banning weapons in a court proceeding, I know it's in there.

    Most of the "Laws" are opinions of the Attorney General and haven't actually been tried in the Supreme Court yet.

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