View Poll Results: 7.62x25mm tokarev

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  • Is awesome.

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  • Is foreign.

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Thread: CZ-52

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    I love my CZ-52. It really isn't conceable but 7.62x25mm is awesome. It provides superior penetration and it is very affordable.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Also the Chinese still make tokarevs because their police like to use 7.62 tokarev ammo.

    And some Russian elite guys still use it.

  3. #3
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    Sa a self defense round, the 7.62x25 round is a little too over penetrating unless you can get some self defense rounds that won't penetrate as much.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Wolf makes some hollowpoints for it.

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    The Tokarev T-33 (also 7.62x25mm of course) is concealable due to its flatness and short grip.

    It is therefore "awesomer." ;-)

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    In what condition do you carry your tokarev concealed?

  7. #7
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    Condition? No round in chamber...I expect my "situational awareness" to give me time to rack the slide.

    -- John D.

    [EDITED to answer your question directly]


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Ah well when I was in philadelphia I Mexican carried a real TT-33 but I carried condition 2( magazine inserted, slide forward, chamber empty, hammer cocked) because the lame safety they make them add when they import are untrustworthy so we don't even use it, but carrying it full cocked loaded seemed dangerous

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Nice edit

  10. #10
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    I misread your question and started telling you how I carried it and a bunch of other stuff-- which was off-topic as youasked about "condition" of carry, nothow/where I carried it-- so I went back and corrected that, deleting the other stuff...sorry.

    BTW, I don't see the Tokarev carried at half-cock as dangerous...that's the way it was designed. It's just that I don't cary any auto in Condition 1, even my Colt Government 1911.

    When I carry the Tokarev, I have one magazine of Wolf HPs in the gun and a spare mag of Romanian milsurp FMJ on the side.

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    When I carry the Tokarev, I have one magazine of Wolf HPs in the gun and a spare mag of Romanian milsurp FMJ on the side.

    -- John D.

    One magazine to take out the assailants, another to shred their vehicle. All hail 7.62mm...

  12. #12
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I used to have one.

    I had mine chambered, hammer down, safety on. It fell on the ground, landed on the hammer, and shot me through the leg. It shot went through the thickest part of my leg bone, then through a cement fire wall and 2 stucco walls, then it bounced off my neighbors ceiling, and landed in the sink. It looked ready to be reloaded. This was Romanian FMJ ammo.

    The HP's will penetrate a little less, but please don't make any mistake about it. It is a hyper fast pistol round, not really suitable for general carry.

    If it's all you have and can afford, it's understandable, and it's definitely good that you're not carrying chambered. As my experience shows, the safety/decocker mechanism isn't to be trusted. Even if it proves to be reliable, as mine did, a couple hundred rounds can screw the things up.

    If you have something else, or can afford something else, my suggestion is to stop carrying the 52. You have a dangerously non existent level of drop safety, all too little power transferred, and a dangerous amount of penetration. Not to mention slow reloading, and a low capacity.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    I've dropped my CZ-52 so many times, I feel really bad because it was made the same year my dad is born so I want to keep, but I carry it condition 1.

    as for the TT-33, Half cocked(lets not fool anyone in thinking the after market safeties have any factor in this) round in the chamber. That's a good way to carry, but the problem then is how do you depress it? in order to chamber a round you have to have the hammer cocked fully, and it has no decocker?

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Also, as soon as I get my Glock 26 back from the cops, I'll carry that again, until I buy a Glock 19 in a few months.

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    tekshogun,

    Yes, that gives me a choice in the proper addressing of either softor hard targets: (1) A POS out of his car or (2) a POS in his car.

    Michigander,

    I think most 7.62x25 owners are aware of the penetration, that's one reason we like it. We just change our tactics in USING it in a situation (but that's true of ANY gun you carry, yes?). If that's done, it's fineforacarry gun. Right nowI have to carry my "Tokarev clone" Zastava M88 compact 9mm as I do not have a suitable ankle holster for the Tokarev due to its longer (but much flatter) slide. [BTW, I do NOT like guns with decockers so I don't miss it on the Tokarev]

    As I've said, the GUN you carry (type/caliber) is only 50% of the S-D equation, TACTICS is the other 50%. If you don't have BOTH, you do not have a "complete" S-D plan going on.

    ComradeV,

    If you MUST "depress it," then you point it in a safe direction, pull the hammer back all the way, hold the hammer carefully, pull the trigger and lower it down -- i.e., the Russian/Soviet way of "depressing" it. The half-cock is as safe as it's going to get sinceit's meant to be carried that way in the field. In a S-D "situation," you'd point it at the POS, cock the hammer and fire. Use him asthe backstop should you have a "accidental discharge" (which would thenpromptly be followed by a whole lot of intentional discharges).;-)

    The CZ-52 is nice, too (but I can't speak on its safety system as I've never owned one so I don't know the safe way to carry a CZ-52, Condition1 or otherwise) and you SHOULD keep it, especially for sentimental reasons. I just prefer the Tokarev for its simplicity, durablility and concealability (overa CZ52)...I hope you got an aftermarket quality-steel firing pin for your 52!

    Za Rodinu!

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  16. #16
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    Michigander,

    I think most 7.62x25 owners are aware of the penetration, that's one reason we like it. We just change our tactics in USING it in a situation (but that's true of ANY gun you carry, yes?). If that's done, it's fineforacarry gun.
    It will go through 2 layers of sheet rock and 2 or 3 people, especially with FMJ's. I firmly stand behind my assessment that it is not a suitable urban carry gun.

    My life was permanently altered by that defective piece of crap, and I would be out of line if I didn't make it abundantly clear how big of a piece of crap I think that 52's are.

    I consider myself blessed in that I was the only one who got hurt, and that I am alive to tell others not to carry these damn things.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  17. #17
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    I can't speak for the CZ-52, never owned one as I said (I've just heard of the roller cutouts in the chamber area weakening it and the brittle OEM firing pin issue). I can, however,speak for the Tokarev...and the 7.62x25.

    And as always, I never try to persuade anyone here about anything (besides, most people just don't get it anyway), so of course, feel 100% free to do as you want.

    In the meantime, I also standby my opinions.

    I guess as long as the end result is the same -- one or more dead POS felons after the smoke clears -- then it doesn't matter what you carry...they're all good. ;-)

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  18. #18
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    Michigander wrote:
    I used to have one.

    I had mine chambered, hammer down, safety on. It fell on the ground, landed on the hammer, and shot me through the leg. It shot went through the thickest part of my leg bone, then through a cement fire wall and 2 stucco walls, then it bounced off my neighbors ceiling, and landed in the sink. It looked ready to be reloaded. This was Romanian FMJ ammo.

    The HP's will penetrate a little less, but please don't make any mistake about it. It is a hyper fast pistol round, not really suitable for general carry.

    If it's all you have and can afford, it's understandable, and it's definitely good that you're not carrying chambered. As my experience shows, the safety/decocker mechanism isn't to be trusted. Even if it proves to be reliable, as mine did, a couple hundred rounds can screw the things up.

    If you have something else, or can afford something else, my suggestion is to stop carrying the 52. You have a dangerously non existent level of drop safety, all too little power transferred, and a dangerous amount of penetration. Not to mention slow reloading, and a low capacity.
    That. Is. Horrible.

    Like, so horrible that I almost kneejerked into nodding towards CA's draconian 'drop test' requirements.

    I'm actually a fan of the CZ-52, but I don't for a second try to make the tok round into something it isn't. It may penetrate all to hell, but there is a darn good reason there were only a half dozen guns made for it.

    It definetely has a flawed design, but not unrepairably so, I'm working to customize mine to be a more safe, hard wearing piece. Not for necessity as it isn't my main firearm, but for pleasure and project work.

    I think that many new gun owners see it, go ga-ga for the price, penetrative power and, cheapness of surp ammo, and C&R status and trump it up to be some lost relic of untold power.

    Good pistol, but the above is simply not true.

  19. #19
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    Hmm. I have a CZ-52, the most unique CZ-52 on earth in fact, and I find it quite easily concealable.

    Someone on czforum.com did a test with Wolf JHPs and found them to be quite suitable.

    Me personally, I prefer a 10mm for toting around though.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    The tokarev is a unique and potent calibre of ammunition,
    and weaponry is still being made to use it. However these newly made versions are not available to us because they're made in China for Chinese Police officers

  21. #21
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    Made in China? How about these -- a bit tough to CC though:

    http://www.centerfiresystems.com/pps43-pis.aspx (made in Poland)

    http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sterling-pistol.aspx (made in Texas)

    ...but they seem well-suited for this hot cartridge. Getting parts might be an issue however.

    As for Norinco, I have a thing about supporting the PRC's army so I wouldn't buy anything from them. Some RVN vets are like that. And Korean War vets, too.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  22. #22
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    *facepalm*

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    Greetings. with the Cz-52. i note that no one has mentioned that the caliber is the same as the Tokarev, but the ammunition is not. it is a 10% boost in speed and power over the TT. CZ-52 ammo goes 1,650 fps. shoot submachine gun Russian ammo in it. Main thing not mentioned is that the 7.62 X 25 m/m round will zip right through soft body armor. which more and more criminals are wearing on the job now. You shoot them with most of what is available and they will simply be rocked a little then kill you. with the CZ-52 and full spec ammo they are simply shot through and through. ammo full spec is available from Cheaper then Dirt. warning, this stuff is not marked over power and will disassemble a TT if fired in it. have fun. New ammo released now, but not in 7.62 X 25 m/m yet is called DRN for Dead Right Now. it is made for police and has a powder core instead of lead. hit the target the bullet comes apart and only the powdered core enters and wipes out the target. plus no bullet to run balistics on. saw that also at cheaper than dirt.

  24. #24
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    lumberjackx13 wrote:
    Greetings. with the Cz-52. i note that no one has mentioned that the caliber is the same as the Tokarev, but the ammunition is not. it is a 10% boost in speed and power over the TT. CZ-52 ammo goes 1,650 fps. shoot submachine gun Russian ammo in it. Main thing not mentioned is that the 7.62 X 25 m/m round will zip right through soft body armor. which more and more criminals are wearing on the job now. You shoot them with most of what is available and they will simply be rocked a little then kill you. with the CZ-52 and full spec ammo they are simply shot through and through. ammo full spec is available from Cheaper then Dirt. warning, this stuff is not marked over power and will disassemble a TT if fired in it. have fun. New ammo released now, but not in 7.62 X 25 m/m yet is called DRN for Dead Right Now. it is made for police and has a powder core instead of lead. hit the target the bullet comes apart and only the powdered core enters and wipes out the target. plus no bullet to run balistics on. saw that also at cheaper than dirt.

  25. #25
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    Mine is just a range gun. It is fun and accurate enough for that purpose. I still have surplus ammo left over from when it was cheap and plentiful. I have not found reliable enough ammo to bet my life on.

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