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Thread: Motorcycle OC ride

  1. #1
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    How many are interested in a motorcycle OC ride for June 5 or 6 weather permitting.

    I am not sure how many members ride and have their cpl. (oc on a motorcycle without cpl may or may not be legal, not recommended unless YOU want to be the test case.)

    Thinking about meeting up near flint. Perhaps then riding to Port huron for lunch in the park near the blue water bridge(s).

    who's in?

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lapeer20m wrote:
    How many are interested in a motorcycle OC ride for June 5 or 6 weather permitting.

    I am not sure how many members ride and have their cpl. (oc on a motorcycle without cpl may or may not be legal, not recommended unless YOU want to be the test case.)

    Thinking about meeting up near flint. Perhaps then riding to Port Huron for lunch in the park near the blue water bridge(s).

    who's in?
    Folks interested in this should have their CPL due to the fact that if you're going to be OC on a motorcycle you will eventually end up at businesses that have a liquor license. e.g. gas stations

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Folks interested in this should have their CPL due to the fact that if you're going to be OC on a motorcycle you will eventually end up at businesses that have a liquor license. e.g. gas stations
    I just went back and re-read the statute, and you are VERY correct sir.

    There does not appear to be any exceptions for parking lots under this mcl.

    http://legislature.mi.gov/%28S%282ki...20AND%20liquor
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I used to have an old Katana 600.... oh the riding days, how I miss them. I've ridden a Goldwing and a Fat Boy on multiple occasions as well. So comfortable! But alas, I own no motorcycle anymore, so unless somebody is kind enough to let me ride one of theirs, I will not be attending.

    You guys will have a lot of fun! Take pictures!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    i am up for the ride however i will say as a patriot guard rider if a funeral comes up on that day and i wont know untill a day or 2 before handif i have to back out the PGR is my number one priority soldiers get #1 in my book

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    I do not remember the source of information, but I remember reading thatper Michigam law, OC a pistol in holster while on motorcycle is considered CC. This is stupid but, reagardless of the fact that your firearm is in open view, it is considred concealed while on motorcycle. So, if stopped, be prepeard to "disclose" carrying Cconcealed weaponto LEO, even if he/she can clearly see it. If you do not, then LEO will have anexcuse to charge you for not declaring concealed weapon.

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    This is also means that if you do not have CPL, you can not OC while on motorcycle. This is even more serious, because you might be charged with carrying concealed weapon without CPL.

    sasha601 wrote:
    I do not remember the source of information, but I remember reading thatper Michigam law, OC a pistol in holster while on motorcycle is considered CC. This is stupid but, reagardless of the fact that your firearm is in open view, it is considred concealed while on motorcycle. So, if stopped, be prepeard to "disclose" carrying Cconcealed weaponto LEO, even if he/she can clearly see it. If you do not, then LEO will have anexcuse to charge you for not declaring concealed weapon.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I would likely be up for this... possibly by brother and parents as well we shall see!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Sportbikes welcome?



    I'd have to get a pistol belt...Just applied for my CPL a few days ago, FINALLY!

    -Richard-

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    I have two points to make:


    First point..... i think it is a bad strategy to open carry on a motorcycle without cpl, however, the law does not specifically prohibit such activity. It is a gray area that has yet to be heard in court. The law also does not say that a pistol in or on a vehicle is somehow magically "concealed" The statue clearly states that it is possible to carry a pistol concealed or otherwise indicating that a pistol is not necessarily concealed just because it is IN a vehicle. (carrying a non-concealed pistol in a vehicle without cpl would be still be illegal)

    A pistol that is openly carried on a person who is riding ON a motorcycle would not appear to be prohibited by the statute.

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    the court did decide in a case involving a felon in possession that he was guilty of violating the above mcl for having a pistol hidden under the seat/gas tank of his motorcycle. His defense is that the pistol was not "in" the motorcycle, the court disagreed.

    Second point:

    Disclosing to an officer while oc'ing on a motorcycle. A good strategy to keep yourself out of court would be to disclose if stopped while oc'ing on a motorcycle. However, as far as i know this has also never been decided by the courts.

    An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:
    (a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.
    (b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.
    (3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

    Since the pistol is carried open, and not concealed, it would appear that disclosure would not technically not be required according to the mcl. The penalty for not disclosing is no worse than what the szerdzi went through in detroit when he was found not-guilty of failing to disclose that he was openly carrying a pistol.

    *edited for grammar and spelling*
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  11. #11
    Regular Member CrossPistols's Avatar
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    Oh lord this ain't gonna turn into a "My Bikes Bigger/Better than Yours" Thread is it!

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    here is my bike:



    It is an SV 650. Not the fastest most manly bike out there, but it gets 60 mpg! I tell people it is the closest i'll ever get to being a fighter pilot. Not quite unlimited thrust, but more thrust than needed in most traffic situations.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lapeer20m wrote:
    It is an SV 650. Not the fastest most manly bike out there, but it gets 60 mpg! I tell people it is the closest i'll ever get to being a fighter pilot. Not quite unlimited thrust, but more thrust than needed in most traffic situations.
    Ugh, I'm jealous. The best I've squeezed out of my 99' CBR900RR is 38 mpg. I'm running a Dynojet Stage 1 jet kit, Uni Filter, Yoshi muffler (hacked to crap, barely muffles), and a couple little misc mods.

    That 919cc Inline-4 engine is a screamer and a half. :P

    -Richard-

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    lapeer20m, thank you. Your post reminded me all the details. Unfortunately, unless specific AG Opinion clarifies this or we have a court case, this will reamin a grey area. So, anyone without a CPLand/or anyone not specifically announcing concealed pistolto LEO while carrying openly on motorcycle is taking anextra risk of being charged.

    lapeer20m wrote:
    I have two points to make:


    First point..... i think it is a bad strategy to open carry on a motorcycle without cpl, however, the law does not specifically prohibit such activity. It is a gray area that has yet to be heard in court. The law also does not say that a pistol in or on a vehicle is somehow magically "concealed" The statue clearly states that it is possible to carry a pistol concealed or otherwise indicating that a pistol is not necessarily concealed just because it is IN a vehicle. (carrying a non-concealed pistol in a vehicle without cpl would be still be illegal)

    A pistol that is openly carried on a person who is riding ON a motorcycle would not appear to be prohibited by the statute.

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    the court did decide in a case involving a felon in possession that he was guilty of violating the above mcl for having a pistol hidden under the seat/gas tank of his motorcycle. His defense is that the pistol was not "in" the motorcycle, the court disagreed.

    Second point:

    Disclosing to an officer while oc'ing on a motorcycle. A good strategy to keep yourself out of court would be to disclose if stopped while oc'ing on a motorcycle. However, as far as i know this has also never been decided by the courts.

    An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:
    (a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.
    (b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.
    (3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

    Since the pistol is carried open, and not concealed, it would appear that disclosure would not technically not be required according to the mcl. The penalty for not disclosing is no worse than what the szerdzi went through in detroit when he was found not-guilty of failing to disclose that he was openly carrying a pistol.

    *edited for grammar and spelling*

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    i believe the law for vehicles states inor upon.



    therefore would be concealed if carried,regardless of actually being concealed or not.


    though,dont hold this against me until i find a law to cite,my searching ability is very limited
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    i believe the law for vehicles states inor upon.



    therefore would be concealed if carried,regardless of actually being concealed or not.
    That is not correct. There is no mcl that states a pistol in or on a vehicle is concealed. This is urban legend. I just cited the mcl above that applies to transporting pistols. It clearly states IN, but does not say a pistol in a vehicle is concealed.

    The confusion about "in or upon" comes from this mcl, which does not apply to pistols:[size="3"][i]

    [code](1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following


    this mcl only applies to long guns.

    I don't know why i feel so compelled to point this out, as oc'ing on a motorcycle without cpl is a bad idea.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    i believe the law for vehicles states inor upon.



    therefore would be concealed if carried,regardless of actually being concealed or not.
    Please cite the law you are referring to.

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    whose can i ride on the back of?

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    How I miss mine...



  20. #20
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    i dont have the exactly case law but in michigan a gun in a holstereven open carried is consider conceled as soon as you enter a motor vehicle and that does include motorcycles so try it at you own risk but i would say if you dont have a CPL you have a 99.99% chance of getting charged with carring conceled

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    Zukirider wrote:
    i dont have the exactly case law but in michigan a gun in a holstereven open carried is consider conceled as soon as you enter a motor vehicle and that does include motorcycles so try it at you own risk but i would say if you dont have a CPL you have a 99.99% chance of getting charged with carring conceled
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

  22. #22
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    i believe the law for vehicles states inor upon.



    therefore would be concealed if carried,regardless of actually being concealed or not.
    For clarification...

    Please cite the law you are referring to.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

  23. #23
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Zukirider wrote:
    i dont have the exactly case law but in michigan a gun in a holstereven open carried is consider conceled as soon as you enter a motor vehicle and that does include motorcycles so try it at you own risk but i would say if you dont have a CPL you have a 99.99% chance of getting charged with carring conceled
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.


    750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed


    for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.


    the reason i stated this one is because they describe a vehicle as ANY self propelled vehicle for land travel


    Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or


    any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more


    of the following:


    (a) Taken down.


    (b) Enclosed in a case.


    (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.


    (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.


    (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or


    a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


    History:
    Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982.


    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.


    Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length,


    or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or


    whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place


    of business or on other land possessed by the person.


    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle


    operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the


    person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner


    inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.


    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a


    fine of not more than $2,500.00.


    History:
    1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931;—CL 1948, 750.227;—Am. 1973, Act 206, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974;—Am. 1986, Act 8, Eff. July 1, 1986.


    Constitutionality:
    The double jeopardy protection against multiple punishment for the same offense is a restriction on a court’s ability to impose punishment


    in excess of that intended by the Legislature, not a limit on the Legislature’s power to define crime and fix punishment. People v. Sturgis, 427 Mich. 392, 397


    N.W.2d 783 (1986).


    Former law:
    See section 5 of Act 372 of 1927, being CL 1929, § 16753.

  24. #24
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_mi.htm

    Permit to carry handguns?

    Yes. Carrying concealed or openly in a motor vehicle requires a license.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_mi.htm

    Permit to carry handguns?

    Yes. Carrying concealed or openly in a motor vehicle requires a license.
    My point was that a motorcycleis considered a motor vehicle for purpose of carrying a pistol period

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