Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38

Thread: Civil Disobedience as an Awareness Raising Technique?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    I have already stated that I CC when I don't OC partly for self-defense and partly as an act of civil disobedience in opposition to unconstitutional law.

    Will there ever be a point in time where members here would meet up for an organized act of civil disobedience in order to gain media attention even when faced with the possibility of arrest and fines?

    We OC in part to raise public awareness but perhaps we should risk more if we truly believe in this just cause.

    How long will we allow this foolishness to drag on before we actually make a stand?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Shawano,WI.
    Posts
    1,011

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    I have already stated that I CC when I don't OC partly for self-defense and partly as an act of civil disobedience in opposition to unconstitutional law.

    Will there ever be a point in time where members here would meet up for an organized act of civil disobedience in order to gain media attention even when faced with the possibility of arrest and fines?

    We OC in part to raise public awareness but perhaps we should risk more if we truly believe in this just cause.

    How long will we allow this foolishness to drag on before we actually make a stand?
    Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    Lurchiron wrote:
    Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
    +1 The law abides only the law abiding.



  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    Violation of a 9XX Chapter of Wisc. Stats is not a civil tort but a criminal violation that can and may disable the violator from legal gun carry. The prohibition against concealed carry is in the criminal statutes, in Chapter 941.

    If a felon may properly be disbarred his rights under color of law then we all can be legally disarmed merely by sufficiently lowering the bar of 'felony', even to a civil accusation as has been done in domestic violence.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits nad guns and the truth. NRA ******* ******* the Obamanation and its goonions.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Lurchiron wrote:
    Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
    +1 The law abides only the law abiding.

    I'm sure the German's in 1938 that went along with the violence of kristallnacht would agree with you.

    My question is when is enough enough?

    In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Shawano,WI.
    Posts
    1,011

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Lurchiron wrote:
    Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
    +1 The law abides only the law abiding.

    I'm sure the German's in 1938 that went along with the violence of kristallnacht would agree with you.

    My question is when is enough enough?

    In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.

    How can you even think to link law-abiding citizens with Jack-booted thugs UNLAWFULLY destroying peoples businesses???

    Your question: Jeez...don't know, but I'm guessing; right after the last straw breaks the camel's back...no?

    Like dum-dum Doyle is going to do anything nice for our cause...well; intentionally anyways.

    Ohh...and for the sake of semantics, which German were you reffering to?

    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.
    "Intimated"? You presume too much.

  8. #8
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.
    Spartacus, I wish I could share your optimism, but don't forget that already a misdemeanor conviction for domestic disorderly conduct or violence results in a complete prohibition from possessing a firearm. Don't underestimate the resolve of people who want to infringe rights.

    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    Alright I'll drop it for now, but if the school zone prohibition is not repealed and in 2 or 3 years we still don't have a decent CC maybe y'all will be more amenable to the idea of civil disobedience.



  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    512

    Post imported post

    I'd love to join ya man, but I don't have a gun that I'd like to donate to the local PD.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  11. #11
    McX
    Guest

    Post imported post

    troll alarm going off. bleep, bleep,bleep.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
    Posts
    243

    Post imported post

    If we keep having effective public lawful OC events we'll get to where we want to be.

    I would say take a good shall-issue bill that comes along - try to limit or eliminate training requirements, minimize fees, and do not give up a millimeter of OC ground.

    Then keep working each year to chip away at the CC statutes until it's vermont/alaska style.


    If you carry already for safety, then more power to you. But I'll venture to say this board shouldn't be used to promote something that is clearly against the "law" albeit a law that is antithetical to fundamental rights, liberty, the order of society, and the Constitution for the US and the numerous state constitutions as well.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    McX wrote:
    troll alarm going off. bleep, bleep,bleep.
    I'm a founding member of WI Carry, so I'm hardly a troll although I am new to this forum.

    I appreciate what you are saying SAK, but what if we don't get any of the things you mention in 5 years? What will it take for some of you guys to get mad?

  14. #14
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,668

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    McX wrote:
    troll alarm going off. bleep, bleep,bleep.
    I'm a founding member of WI Carry, so I'm hardly a troll although I am new to this forum.

    I appreciate what you are saying SAK, but what if we don't get any of the things you mention in 5 years? What will it take for some of you guys to get mad?
    Spartacus, plenty of people are already mad. But there are plenty of valid reasons to get rid of or change some of these laws already at our disposal. I'm not sure mass civil disobedience is necessarily the way to go. Have you ever seen one of the marijuana smoke-outs? Hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of people lighting up joints. Hasn't made marijuana legal yet, has it?
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    Actually yes, pot laws are slowly changing all across the country as consciousness is arising. I am no longer a smoker but I agree that it should not be criminalized.

    Just so you guys know who I am, as I was accused by some fool of being a troll. I have CC'd on and off for 30 years in Wisconsin and several other states where I lived, with and without the proper permits, needing only my constitutional right to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as my permission.

    I have been found not guilty in a three day jury trail of two felonies and two misdemeanor hand-gun related charges where the judge allowed self-defense instructions to the jury and I was lawfully acquitted of all charges.

    So I know something of what I speak about and my handle here truly reflects my character and resolution to our cause.

  16. #16
    Regular Member goforlow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Eau Claire, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    201

    Post imported post

    Some believe that the only reason marijuana is being legalized is to use it as another tax for the government. I am one of those folks. Also I sure as hell do not believe that pot parties are the reason the government is legalizing marijuana.

    We have the 2nd amendment as our tool to change carry laws in this state and others. We should not have to act like criminals to get what we are entitled to.
    Wisconsin Carry Inc - Founders Club Member
    NRA - Life Member
    3rd generation US Air Force Veteran

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    Actually yes, pot laws are slowly changing all across the country as consciousness is arising. I am no longer a smoker but I agree that it should not be criminalized.

    Just so you guys know who I am, as I was accused by some fool of being a troll. I have CC'd on and off for 30 years in Wisconsin and several other states where I lived, with and without the proper permits, needing only my constitutional right to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as my permission.

    I have been found not guilty in a three day jury trail of two felonies and two misdemeanor hand-gun related charges where the judge allowed self-defense instructions to the jury and I was lawfully acquitted of all charges.

    So I know something of what I speak about and my handle here truly reflects my character and resolution to our cause.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

    7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    I'm just now listening to the godfather of talk radio lecture on the origins of the phrase 'the big lie'.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    goforlow wrote:
    We have the 2nd amendment as our tool to change carry laws in this state and others. We should not have to act like criminals to get what we are entitled to.
    We should not indeed my friend, but understand that it takes very little these days with all the restrictive laws and legislation to become a criminal. Is it 40% of our adult male population in the states has been jailed? Something like that and ridiculous.

    My original question has to this point remained unanswered. I hear a lot of talk and hot air but all anyone is ready to do is holster up to go shopping or go to a lunch which will go unnoticed.

    If in 3 or 5 years we still have nothing substantial and the legislature is still shucking and jiving like they have since before Doyle, would you be willing to take the next step?

    Master Doug, your comments are too cryptic to respond to. I cannot tell what you mean by the link you posted.

  19. #19
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    goforlow wrote:
    We have the 2nd amendment as our tool to change carry laws in this state and others. We should not have to act like criminals to get what we are entitled to.
    We should not indeed my friend, but understand that it takes very little these days with all the restrictive laws and legislation to become a criminal. Is it 40% of our adult male population in the states has been jailed? Something like that and ridiculous.

    My original question has to this point remained unanswered. I hear a lot of talk and hot air but all anyone is ready to do is holster up to go shopping or go to a lunch which will go unnoticed.

    If in 3 or 5 years we still have nothing substantial and the legislature is still shucking and jiving like they have since before Doyle, would you be willing to take the next step?

    Master Doug, your comments are too cryptic to respond to. I cannot tell what you mean by the link you posted.
    Doug does not need me to defend his posts (most of the time I can't), but I think he was getting at "2) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life - all posts should relate substantially tothis agenda, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom andliberty".

    I do not think the founders of this site mind the talk of CCW, but I would bet that asking this forums members to join you in becoming a criminal would piss them off. At this time, CCW is a crime in Wisconsin, and I could only recommend that we all try our best to not break this law.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    Thanks, you're close. Actually I was commenting on cracker-talk.

    I'm wonderful too and have posted such links to my past life as exist and that I can. I lived thirty years in the South and kin tell a cracker talkin' when I hears it.

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,185

    Post imported post

    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Thanks, you're close. Actually I was commenting on cracker-talk.

    I'm wonderful too and have posted such links to my past life as exist and that I can. I lived thirty years in the South and kin tell a cracker talkin' when I hears it.
    Doug, If you think I'm talking ******** then you are an idiot. I'm certainly not going to provide the forum with links to a trial that will share my personal ID with the world.

    Say what you mean when you talk to me in the future, OK? I appreciate straight talk and no innuendo.

    Aaron, I'm not asking anyone to become a criminal, but if someday it takes criminal activity to get what we want, why can't it be discussed like any other topic.

  22. #22
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497

    Post imported post

    All I can tell you Spartacus is that CC is not legal in Wisconsin. I do my best to follow the laws of this state. If you and I were in the same place, and I found out that you were concealing a gun on your person, I would think about calling the police on you. I do not trust people that carry guns hidden from view (when we have laws against it). You are a criminal,and it is that simple for me.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    512

    Post imported post

    Spartacus wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Thanks, you're close. Actually I was commenting on cracker-talk.

    I'm wonderful too and have posted such links to my past life as exist and that I can. I lived thirty years in the South and kin tell a cracker talkin' when I hears it.
    Doug, If you think I'm talking bull@#$% then you are an idiot. I'm certainly not going to provide the forum with links to a trial that will share my personal ID with the world.

    Say what you mean when you talk to me in the future, OK? I appreciate straight talk and no innuendo.

    Aaron, I'm not asking anyone to become a criminal, but if someday it takes criminal activity to get what we want, why can't it be discussed like any other topic.
    I concur, I mean afterall,our founding fathers were considered "criminals" for their actions in 1776.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  24. #24
    McX
    Guest

    Post imported post

    current verifiable quotable information i could find on cc in wisconsin. i am not opening this topic up for discussion on the forum, as we are open carry advocates here. this is just what i could find quickly on the net:
    Wisconsin`s 130-Year-Old Ban on Carry-Conceal Gets Court Change

    A state Supreme Court decision allowing home owners and business owners to carry concealed weapons on their property has re-ignited a movement to relax Wisconsin`s 130-year-old ban on carrying concealed weapons. "Basically, the Supreme Court has stated that with Wisconsin`s Right to Keep and Bear Arms constitutional amendment, the Legislature should look at creating a permitting system for individuals to carry a concealed weapon," Rep. Scott Gunderson, a Republican representing communities in the state`s southeastern corner.

    Read About It: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....\200307\POL200

    POSTED: Monday, July 21, 2003 source; nra site

  25. #25
    McX
    Guest

    Post imported post

    i tried the link, and it's as dead as my post and the topic of cc.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •