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Civil Disobedience as an Awareness Raising Technique?

Spartacus

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I have already stated that I CC when I don't OC partly for self-defense and partly as an act of civil disobedience in opposition to unconstitutional law.

Will there ever be a point in time where members here would meet up for an organized act of civil disobedience in order to gain media attention even when faced with the possibility of arrest and fines?

We OC in part to raise public awareness but perhaps we should risk more if we truly believe in this just cause.

How long will we allow this foolishness to drag on before we actually make a stand?
 

Lurchiron

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Spartacus wrote:
I have already stated that I CC when I don't OC partly for self-defense and partly as an act of civil disobedience in opposition to unconstitutional law.

Will there ever be a point in time where members here would meet up for an organized act of civil disobedience in order to gain media attention even when faced with the possibility of arrest and fines?

We OC in part to raise public awareness but perhaps we should risk more if we truly believe in this just cause.

How long will we allow this foolishness to drag on before we actually make a stand?
Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
 
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Violation of a 9XX Chapter of Wisc. Stats is not a civil tort but a criminal violation that can and may disable the violator from legal gun carry. The prohibition against concealed carry is in the criminal statutes, in Chapter 941.

If a felon may properly be disbarred his rights under color of law then we all can be legally disarmed merely by sufficiently lowering the bar of 'felony', even to a civil accusation as has been done in domestic violence.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits nad guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$ Goddamn the Obamanation and its goonions.
 

Spartacus

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
Lurchiron wrote:
Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
+1 The law abides only the law abiding.
I'm sure the German's in 1938 that went along with the violence of kristallnacht would agree with you.

My question is when is enough enough?

In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.
 

Lurchiron

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Spartacus wrote:
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
Lurchiron wrote:
Why would we want to break the law; when we already have the law on our side???
+1 The law abides only the law abiding.
I'm sure the German's in 1938 that went along with the violence of kristallnacht would agree with you.

My question is when is enough enough?

In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.


How can you even think to link law-abiding citizens with Jack-booted thugs UNLAWFULLY destroying peoples businesses???

Your question: Jeez...don't know, but I'm guessing; right after the last straw breaks the camel's back...no?

Like dum-dum Doyle is going to do anything nice for our cause...well; intentionally anyways.

Ohh...and for the sake of semantics, which German were you reffering to?
 
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Spartacus wrote:
In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.
"Intimated"? You presume too much.
 

Shotgun

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Spartacus wrote:
In your last post you intimated that a misdemeanor CC conviction might exclude being licensed when it becomes legal. First of all I doubt that any misdemeanor would do that and secondly in any war there are casualties. If a few of us loose the "privilege" of being licensed like dogs, so what? It is also possible that the governor could provide amnesty for the involved protesters in any case.
Spartacus, I wish I could share your optimism, but don't forget that already a misdemeanor conviction for domestic disorderly conduct or violence results in a complete prohibition from possessing a firearm. Don't underestimate the resolve of people who want to infringe rights.
 

Spartacus

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Alright I'll drop it for now, but if the school zone prohibition is not repealed and in 2 or 3 years we still don't have a decent CC maybe y'all will be more amenable to the idea of civil disobedience.
 

SAK

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ShaunKranish from ICarry.org, ,
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If we keep having effective public lawful OC events we'll get to where we want to be.

I would say take a good shall-issue bill that comes along - try to limit or eliminate training requirements, minimize fees, and do not give up a millimeter of OC ground.

Then keep working each year to chip away at the CC statutes until it's vermont/alaska style.


If you carry already for safety, then more power to you. But I'll venture to say this board shouldn't be used to promote something that is clearly against the "law" albeit a law that is antithetical to fundamental rights, liberty, the order of society, and the Constitution for the US and the numerous state constitutions as well.
 

Spartacus

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McX wrote:
troll alarm going off. bleep, bleep,bleep.
I'm a founding member of WI Carry, so I'm hardly a troll although I am new to this forum.

I appreciate what you are saying SAK, but what if we don't get any of the things you mention in 5 years? What will it take for some of you guys to get mad?
 

Shotgun

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Spartacus wrote:
McX wrote:
troll alarm going off. bleep, bleep,bleep.
I'm a founding member of WI Carry, so I'm hardly a troll although I am new to this forum.

I appreciate what you are saying SAK, but what if we don't get any of the things you mention in 5 years? What will it take for some of you guys to get mad?
Spartacus, plenty of people are already mad. But there are plenty of valid reasons to get rid of or change some of these laws already at our disposal. I'm not sure mass civil disobedience is necessarily the way to go. Have you ever seen one of the marijuana smoke-outs? Hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of people lighting up joints. Hasn't made marijuana legal yet, has it?
 

Spartacus

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Actually yes, pot laws are slowly changing all across the country as consciousness is arising. I am no longer a smoker but I agree that it should not be criminalized.

Just so you guys know who I am, as I was accused by some fool of being a troll. I have CC'd on and off for 30 years in Wisconsin and several other states where I lived, with and without the proper permits, needing only my constitutional right to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as my permission.

I have been found not guilty in a three day jury trail of two felonies and two misdemeanor hand-gun related charges where the judge allowed self-defense instructions to the jury and I was lawfully acquitted of all charges.

So I know something of what I speak about and my handle here truly reflects my character and resolution to our cause.
 

goforlow

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Some believe that the only reason marijuana is being legalized is to use it as another tax for the government. I am one of those folks. Also I sure as hell do not believe that pot parties are the reason the government is legalizing marijuana.

We have the 2nd amendment as our tool to change carry laws in this state and others. We should not have to act like criminals to get what we are entitled to.
 
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Spartacus wrote:
Actually yes, pot laws are slowly changing all across the country as consciousness is arising. I am no longer a smoker but I agree that it should not be criminalized.

Just so you guys know who I am, as I was accused by some fool of being a troll. I have CC'd on and off for 30 years in Wisconsin and several other states where I lived, with and without the proper permits, needing only my constitutional right to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as my permission.

I have been found not guilty in a three day jury trail of two felonies and two misdemeanor hand-gun related charges where the judge allowed self-defense instructions to the jury and I was lawfully acquitted of all charges.

So I know something of what I speak about and my handle here truly reflects my character and resolution to our cause.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

[font="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][/font]
7) If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available, is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
I'm just now listening to the godfather of talk radio lecture on the origins of the phrase 'the big lie'.
 

Spartacus

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goforlow wrote:
We have the 2nd amendment as our tool to change carry laws in this state and others. We should not have to act like criminals to get what we are entitled to.
We should not indeed my friend, but understand that it takes very little these days with all the restrictive laws and legislation to become a criminal. Is it 40% of our adult male population in the states has been jailed? Something like that and ridiculous.

My original question has to this point remained unanswered. I hear a lot of talk and hot air but all anyone is ready to do is holster up to go shopping or go to a lunch which will go unnoticed.

If in 3 or 5 years we still have nothing substantial and the legislature is still shucking and jiving like they have since before Doyle, would you be willing to take the next step?

Master Doug, your comments are too cryptic to respond to. I cannot tell what you mean by the link you posted.
 

AaronS

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Spartacus wrote:
goforlow wrote:
We have the 2nd amendment as our tool to change carry laws in this state and others. We should not have to act like criminals to get what we are entitled to.
We should not indeed my friend, but understand that it takes very little these days with all the restrictive laws and legislation to become a criminal. Is it 40% of our adult male population in the states has been jailed? Something like that and ridiculous.

My original question has to this point remained unanswered. I hear a lot of talk and hot air but all anyone is ready to do is holster up to go shopping or go to a lunch which will go unnoticed.

If in 3 or 5 years we still have nothing substantial and the legislature is still shucking and jiving like they have since before Doyle, would you be willing to take the next step?

Master Doug, your comments are too cryptic to respond to. I cannot tell what you mean by the link you posted.

Doug does not need me to defend his posts (most of the time I can't), but I think he was getting at "2) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life - all posts should relate substantially tothis agenda, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom andliberty".

I do not think the founders of this site mind the talk of CCW, but I would bet that asking this forums members to join you in becoming a criminal would piss them off. At this time, CCW is a crime in Wisconsin, and I could only recommend that we all try our best to not break this law.
 
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