HELP - Portage County Against Open Carry

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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Hello all -

About a week and a half ago I mailed off a letter to the Sheriff of Portage County WI, John E Charewicz, questioning his departments policy on open carry in this county. Boy am I glad I did!

Here's the letter I sent

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Dear Sir

I am writing to respectively ask your position in regards to the lawful open carry of firearms in Portage County, WI. Specifically, what is the Portage County Sheriff Departments stance on a citizen's right to lawfully bear unconcealed arms in public.

Thank you for your time in this matter.

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Here is the letter I received today:

Mr Anmut,

The Portage County Board has passed an ordinance, 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter, which basically states that firearms are not allowed in public places. Whatever my thoughts are on "open carry" I must enforce the ordinance as adapted by the Portage County Board.

The Portage County Ordinances may be viewed on the county's website. Any questions about a specific ordinance or it's interpretation can be directed to the Corporation Counsel Office. The Portage County Sheriffs Department will respond to any violation of County Ordinance that we are informed of.

John E Charewicz

Help!

Is this even remotely legal for a county to pass an ordinance that directly infringes on the Wisconsin State Constitution? Where to go from here?

bigdaddy1 · Feb 16, 2010

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Be prepared to be bombarded with legal lingo, but NO, it is not legal.

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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I need some Portage County OC'ers to get organized with and get to the Corporation Counsel Office with to get this ordinance off the books. This sickens me how this was put on the books somehow.

I remember last summer, I think, there was an OC rally at a Stevens Point park, made the papers and everything. So sometime between that and my letter this was passed and nobody covered it. My daily reading of our local paper and subscription to the weekly never mentioned it in the last couple years.

I am LIVID.

AaronS · Feb 16, 2010

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No this is not legal. Ant the local cops know it.

If you wan't to see this changed, you will have to send letters (e-mail has worked for me so far) asking the local Gov. to have this "bad" law removed as it is in direct violation of State Statute 66.0409. Also send a copy of this letter to the heads of police, so they understand that you are free to excercise your rights. Once the letters are sent, I am sure it will be just a few days before you get responces. This is how we have had the same kind of local laws removed from Grafton, Susex, Saukville, just to name a few. Give it a try, and watch the law get changed, it is a great feeling.

Aaron

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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Thanks - I think I am going to draft one letter and send it to this Corporation Counsel Office and CC the Sheriff Dept, the local PD, my local sportsman's club, the two newspapers and local TV news media.

I'll post it here for review first and hopefully for a copy & paste by some of the locals as well.

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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Alright here is the draft I have prepared. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

To Whom It May Concern;

I am writing to ask the Portage County Corporation Counsel Office to revoke ordinance 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter.

This ordinance relates to the act of publicly carrying a firearm in plain sight. This ordinance is in direct violation of Wisconsin Statute 66.0409 WI State Pre-Emption of Firearm Laws. It states:
“Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may...regulate the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm...unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

This ordinance also violates the WI Constitution Article 1 Section 25:
The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

I look forward to your prompt resolution of this matter.

Sincerely,

davegran · Feb 16, 2010

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Here is the ordinance, straight from their website:

http://www.co.portage.wi.us/ordinances/index.shtm

PORTAGE COUNTY CODE OF ORDINANCES

Chapter 2 PUBLIC PEACE AND ORDER

2.1 Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order

2.1.9 POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN PUBLIC PLACES

(A) Whoever does any of the following shall incur a forfeiture not to exceed $300:
Possess a firearm in a public place.
(B) Public place includes but is not limited to taverns or other businesses licensed under Chapter 125 of
the Wisconsin Statutes, churches and any retail merchandise store.
(C) The carrying of any instrument necessary to certain trades, crafts, sports or professions during the
usual course of such endeavor is specifically exempted from the terms of this section.
(D) This section is not intended to prohibit the transportation of a firearm if it is unloaded and dismantled or
if it is fully encased by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no portion of the
firearm showing within a gun case expressly made for that purpose.
(E) This section does not apply to peace officers or armed forces or military personnel who go armed in the
line of duty or any person duly authorized by the sheriff to possess a firearm in a public place.

Chapter 125 of the Wisconsin Statutes is the alcoholic beverages licensing chapter. Notice that Portage County's definition of "public place" seems to include any establishment that sells alcohol, whether or not it is consumed on the premises. It also adds churches and any retail store. Too bad there's no date on the ordinance.

Dave

hardballer · Feb 16, 2010

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Hubert should be along any time now as well as others. Definately have set themselves up against state law as enacted in 1995.

Their stance is completely indefensible and illegal.

Here is one link to the statutes on the books. http://www.opencarry.org/wi.html

This one from an attorneys site.

http://www.kirkobear.com/open_carry_wisconsin.html

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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Thanks guys. Here is the updated letter - please let me know what you think.
[line]
February 16, 2010

Portage County Corporation Counsel Office
County City Building
1516 Church Street
Stevens Point WI 54481

RE: Ordinance 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter

Dear Michael McKenna:

I am writing to ask the Portage County Corporation Counsel Office to revoke ordinance 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter. Specifically section B that states:
“Public place includes but is not limited to taverns or other businesses licensed under Chapter 125 of the Wisconsin Statute, churches and any retail store.

This ordinance relates to the act of publicly carrying a firearm in plain sight. This ordinance is in direct violation of Wisconsin Statute 66.0409 WI State Pre-Emption of Firearm Laws. It states:
“Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may...regulate the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm...unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

This ordinance also violates the WI Constitution Article 1 Section 25:
“The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.”

On April 20[sup]th[/sup] 2009 Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen sent out a memo stating that open carry in Wisconsin is legal. The memo is available on the internet at http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/FinalOpenCarryMemo.pdf.

So unless a person is within 1000' of a School Zone, in a tavern or resturant that is serving alchohol for consumption, in a government building or in a state park it is legal to lawfully carry in churches, retail stores and most public places. As Governor Jim Doyle stated: “If you want to carry a gun in Wisconsin, wear it on your hip.”

I look forward to your prompt resolution of this matter.

Sincerely,

Anmut

cc: Portage County Sheriff Department
Stevens Point Police Department
Plover Police Department
Michael Juris – Amherst Village President
Rick Osowski – Rosholt Village President
Stevens Point Journal
Portage County Gazett
Isaac Walton League – Bill Cook Chapter
WAOW Channel 9
WSAW Channel 7

davegran · Feb 16, 2010

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anmut wrote:

Thanks guys. Here is the updated letter - please let me know what you think.
[line]
February 16, 2010

Portage County Corporation Counsel Office
County City Building
1516 Church Street
Stevens Point WI 54481

RE: Ordinance 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter

Dear Michael McKenna:

I am writing to ask the Portage County Corporation Counsel Office to revoke ordinance 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter. Specifically section B that states:
“Public place includes but is not limited to taverns or other businesses licensed under Chapter 125 of the Wisconsin Statute, churches and any retail store.

This ordinance relates to the act of publicly carrying a firearm in plain sight. This ordinance is in direct violation of Wisconsin Statute 66.0409 WI State Pre-Emption of Firearm Laws. It states:
“Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may...regulate the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm...unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

This ordinance also violates the WI Constitution Article 1 Section 25:
“The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.”

On April 20[sup]th[/sup] 2009 Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen sent out a memo stating that open carry in Wisconsin is legal. The memo is available on the internet at http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/FinalOpenCarryMemo.pdf.

So unless a person is within 1000' of a School Zone, in a tavern or resturant that is serving alchohol for consumption, in a government building or in a state park it is legal to lawfully carry in churches, retail stores and most public places. As Governor Jim Doyle stated: “If you want to carry a gun in Wisconsin, wear it on your hip.”

I look forward to your prompt resolution of this matter.

Sincerely,

Anmut

cc: Portage County Sheriff Department
Stevens Point Police Department
Plover Police Department
Michael Juris – Amherst Village President
Rick Osowski – Rosholt Village President
Stevens Point Journal
Portage County Gazett
Isaac Walton League – Bill Cook Chapter
WAOW Channel 9
WSAW Channel 7

Very, very good letter IMO. One change you might consider to avoid any misunderstandings or misinterpretations, would be to write something like,

I am writing to ask the Portage County Corporation Counsel Office to change ordinance 2.1.9, section B of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter to:

“Public place as defined in Wisconsin Statute 941.235, Carrying firearm in public building, and Statute 941.237, Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed."

By referencing the actual state statutes, there can be no doubts, plus if the statutes are someday changed in our favor, Portage County would be automatically updated.

Dave

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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Thank you - update made.

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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10 letters in the mail tonight.

protias · Feb 16, 2010

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anmut wrote:

10 letters in the mail tonight.

NICE!

:monkey

BerettaFS92Custom · Feb 16, 2010

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"Whatever my thoughts are on "open carry" I must enforce the ordinance as adapted by the Portage County Board."

So apparently the sherrifs hands are tied as he has to enforce an unconstitutionalordiance.

probably would not hurt to write the seantor and rep for the area as well to let them know that this is bull.... also cc to van holland as well? just my thoughts

anmut · Feb 16, 2010

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Yep, I copied Kirk Obear, Attorney At Law in as well as the local media. Every letter except the original got a personalized cover letter explaining the included letter as well as copies of my original to the sheriff, his reply back and the pdf print out from this website with case law and statutes.

5 hours, 50 pages of paper, $6 worth of stamps and one bitchy wife (she got put on ignore after I got my head wrapped around this) later I'm a tired but feel like it was worth it.

In case any other people from Portage County want to print out and send this letter out I've attached it as a doc on this post.

bnhcomputing · Feb 16, 2010

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anmut:

The "churches and any retail merchandise store" part of the ordinance is unenforceable on it's face, and the Sheriff knows it. I have carried in several public places in Portage county.

(WalMart, Best Buy, Dairy Queen, Fleet Farm, Culver's, Kohl's, K-Mart, Perkins, Hardees, etc.)

Just check the "central sands" thread I started.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26393&forum_id=57

The Portage County Sheriff is admittedly ANTI-Gun, and he is proud of it. He is attempting to intimidate you into NOT exercising your rights, just like the current Sussex issue.

I will be in Marshfield, WI at the gun show there next weekend. I would be more than happy to hook up with you at that time.

anmut · Feb 17, 2010

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Thanks man - I did send him a copy of everything that I sent out to the Counsel. I'll keep you guys informed!

Btw, is this another B&R gun show? If NOT I may actually attend. I'm kinda sick of the same ol same at the B&R shows.

Mike · Feb 17, 2010

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anmut wrote:

Thanks guys. Here is the updated letter - please let me know what you think.
[line]
February 16, 2010

Portage County Corporation Counsel Office
County City Building
1516 Church Street
Stevens Point WI 54481

RE: Ordinance 2.1.9 of the Preservation of Public Peace and Good Order Chapter

Your efforst should e directed at teh city council - their lawyer works for them

anmut · Feb 17, 2010

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Actually they dont - we have a county executive that presides.

bnhcomputing · Feb 17, 2010

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anmut wrote:

Thanks man - I did send him a copy of everything that I sent out to the Counsel. I'll keep you guys informed!

Btw, is this another B&R gun show? If NOT I may actually attend. I'm kinda sick of the same ol same at the B&R shows.

This is NOT a Bob & Rocco show.

HELP - Portage County Against Open Carry

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