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UOC

mjones

mjones

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iownagn-gs wrote:
Does anyone know if there are any states in the union, other than California that dictate UOC?

Thanks,

Walt
Click to expand...

I don't believe there are any. I'm not 100% positive, but I think CA is the only state which regulates Carry and Loaded in separate sections of the law.

PC 12025 to 12027 are the primary regulations for Carry
PC 12031 regulates Loaded.

12031 was in direct response to LOC by the Black Panthers on Capitol Hill.
 
coolusername2007

coolusername2007

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mjones wrote:
iownagn-gs wrote:
Does anyone know if there are any states in the union, other than California that dictate UOC?

Thanks,

Walt
Click to expand...

I don't believe there are any. I'm not 100% positive, but I think CA is the only state which regulates Carry and Loaded in separate sections of the law.

PC 12025 to 12027 are the primary regulations for Carry
PC 12031 regulates Loaded.

12031 was in direct response to LOC by the Black Panthers on Capitol Hill.
Click to expand...

I've read this posted here before. According to the CA Sergeant at Arms website, the Black Panthers did not carry loaded. http://www2.senate.ca.gov/portal/site/SENSergeant/SENSergeantNavHistory

1967

Black Panthers marched into the Assembly chamber. Then Assembly Chief Sergeant-at-Arms ordered the protesters out while terrified legislators hid behind their desks. The protesters, whose guns where not loaded, complied by leaving the building. Although they were not breaking any laws at the time, the next day legislation was introduced to make it illegal to bring weapons or firearms into the State Capitol.
Click to expand...
 
I

iownagn-gs

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A real shame, sounds like the typical "reaction", rather than "action" on the part of the politicians.Better security measures at the Cap should have been instituted rather than neuter the law abiding populace. Perfect example of "your Government at work".
 
wewd

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The Black Panthers were protesting the imminent passage of the Mulford Act (codified as Penal Code 12031). Their stunt did not cause it to be passed. The law was passed because the police, mainly the LAPD, did not like the idea that blacks were legally arming themselves for protection against racist cops. Since a law disarming only black people would never stand up, they disarmed everyone. This all happened during the height of the civil rights movement and the protests against the war in Vietnam, where black men were far more likely to be drafted than white men. The Mulford Act is one of the last standing Jim Crow laws and it's in California of all places. Signed into law by Gov. Ronald Reagan.
 
Decoligny

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The closest that comes to UOC is Utah.

Unless you have a CCW, you can only open carry without a round in the chamber.

You can however have a full magazine in the magazine well, so they are one step ahead of us, they only have to rack the slide to be in battery.
 
coolusername2007

coolusername2007

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Decoligny wrote:
The closest that comes to UOC is Utah.

Unless you have a CCW, you can only open carry without a round in the chamber.

You can however have a full magazine in the magazine well, so they are one step ahead of us, they only have to rack the slide to be in battery.
Click to expand...
I would say that's a pretty big step.
 
B

b1ack5mith

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Decoligny wrote:
The closest that comes to UOC is Utah.

Unless you have a CCW, you can only open carry without a round in the chamber.

You can however have a full magazine in the magazine well, so they are one step ahead of us, they only have to rack the slide to be in battery.
Click to expand...


not ENTIRELY true... In utah, you just cant be on a STREET with a loaded gun... that means you can stand on the grass at a park with a loaded gun... but the second you touch the street, youre breaking the law. So we just keep a full mag in the firearm and leave it there. My bro OC's my ar15 all the time, sure, its up the canyon, but he still does it! and hes 17
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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wewd wrote:
...The Mulford Act is one of the last standing Jim Crow laws and it's in California of all places...
Click to expand...
Talked to my dad about this the other day (he was a CA resident at the time the Mulford Act passed). He said that for the first couple years the law wasn't inforced at all in the central valley. He was well-known as a trouble-maker to the local cops, and was caught several times with a loaded firearm.

In the early 70s he shipped outas an Airborne Ranger and didn't return homefor several years.He said when he got back, they still didn't enforce 12031 in the smaller towns, except against minorities or people that really pissed the cops off.

Thought it was interesting to hear about how the cops were reluctant to use this law at first, and then it morphed into a tool of discrimination against certain races... and now it's a tool of discrimination against an entire class of citizens (generally: the poor - thosethat can't afford to get a CCW permit).
 
demnogis

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That is very interesting!

People are quick to forget that LEOs have an obligation to uphold the constitution, not the law and certainly not unjust or unconstitutional laws. Is it quite possible that these small-town LEOs were not just reluctant to enforce a bad law, but less reluctant to violate a person's rights?

CA_Libertarian wrote:
wewd wrote:
...The Mulford Act is one of the last standing Jim Crow laws and it's in California of all places...
Click to expand...
Talked to my dad about this the other day (he was a CA resident at the time the Mulford Act passed). He said that for the first couple years the law wasn't inforced at all in the central valley. He was well-known as a trouble-maker to the local cops, and was caught several times with a loaded firearm.

In the early 70s he shipped out as an Airborne Ranger and didn't return home for several years. He said when he got back, they still didn't enforce 12031 in the smaller towns, except against minorities or people that really pissed the cops off.

Thought it was interesting to hear about how the cops were reluctant to use this law at first, and then it morphed into a tool of discrimination against certain races... and now it's a tool of discrimination against an entire class of citizens (generally: the poor - those that can't afford to get a CCW permit).
Click to expand...
 
C

CA_Libertarian

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demnogis wrote:
... Is it quite possible that these small-town LEOs were not just reluctant to enforce a bad law, but less reluctant to violate a person's rights?
Click to expand...
I would like to think that, and maybe it was to some extent. Moreso, I believe it wasdue tothe small-town atmosphere. I can only imagine that if 40 years ago a deputy arrested my dad for violating 12031, grandma would have called the deputy's mother at home and had words for her. And the deputy's mother would have most likely had words for her son!

Nowadays people move into a neighborhood for 5 years and don't get to know their neighbors, then just move to another neighborhood when they "trade up" to a newer house. People are just less neighborly than they used to be, I guess.

There are some areas in rural Stanislaus County even today where the deputies know the farmers on a first-name basis. The deputies don't mess with the farmers too much, even when they carry "in town." The deputiesrealize the farmers are much more likely to be their first life line when the nearest backup is 20 minutes away... at least that's how one deputy explained it to me...
 
I

iownagn-gs

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
demnogis wrote:
... Is it quite possible that these small-town LEOs were not just reluctant to enforce a bad law, but less reluctant to violate a person's rights?
Click to expand...
I would like to think that, and maybe it was to some extent. Moreso, I believe it wasdue tothe small-town atmosphere. I can only imagine that if 40 years ago a deputy arrested my dad for violating 12031, grandma would have called the deputy's mother at home and had words for her. And the deputy's mother would have most likely had words for her son!

Nowadays people move into a neighborhood for 5 years and don't get to know their neighbors, then just move to another neighborhood when they "trade up" to a newer house. People are just less neighborly than they used to be, I guess.

There are some areas in rural Stanislaus County even today where the deputies know the farmers on a first-name basis. The deputies don't mess with the farmers too much, even when they carry "in town." The deputiesrealize the farmers are much more likely to be their first life line when the nearest backup is 20 minutes away... at least that's how one deputy explained it to me...

I grew up in the late 40's and 50's, and I treasure the atmosphere of life at that time. Family, neighbors, friends were genuine. Today, life is very confusing, I miss those days.
Click to expand...
 
coolusername2007

coolusername2007

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
demnogis wrote:
... Is it quite possible that these small-town LEOs were not just reluctant to enforce a bad law, but less reluctant to violate a person's rights?
Click to expand...
I would like to think that, and maybe it was to some extent. Moreso, I believe it wasdue tothe small-town atmosphere. I can only imagine that if 40 years ago a deputy arrested my dad for violating 12031, grandma would have called the deputy's mother at home and had words for her. And the deputy's mother would have most likely had words for her son!

Nowadays people move into a neighborhood for 5 years and don't get to know their neighbors, then just move to another neighborhood when they "trade up" to a newer house. People are just less neighborly than they used to be, I guess.

There are some areas in rural Stanislaus County even today where the deputies know the farmers on a first-name basis. The deputies don't mess with the farmers too much, even when they carry "in town." The deputiesrealize the farmers are much more likely to be their first life line when the nearest backup is 20 minutes away... at least that's how one deputy explained it to me...
Click to expand...

Ah, the pros and cons of living in a small town...everybody knows everybody...and...everybody knows everybody. I've seen both sides...nice, polite, small towns, and nice, polite, closed-off small towns. End up in the right one and life is good, end up in the wrong one and life isn't so good.

Plus there's something to be said for moving out, moving on and starting over fresh. Done that too, and it has its benefits also.
 
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