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Thread: OC in restaurant, drinking legal?

  1. #1
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    If I read the revision to the statute correctly, it prohibits one who carries a concealed handgun from drinking, but does not prohibit an oc'er from drinking. That seems somewhat absurd. I agree with those who feel they should have just repealed the whole thing. And why can cops drink and carry?

    J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. [ A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. ] However, nothing in this subsection shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer [ or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute ] . from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

  2. #2
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    That is correct.

    When you consume alcohol, do you surrender your right to:

    ...freedom of religion?

    ...freedom of speech?

    ...remain silent? (ok, you could make an argument that people tend to lose their ability to remain silent after consuming alcohol. Nevertheless, you have the right.)

    ...freedom to peaceably assemble?

    ...keep and bear arms?

    ...deny quartering of soldiers?

    ...be free from unreasonable searches and seizures?

    ...the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury; to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against you; and to have the assistance of counsel for your defense?

    ...reasonable bail, fines, and punishments for any crimes?

    ...vote?


    Or surrender any other rights?


  3. #3
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    ugh

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    A CHP is a privilege not a right and subject to restrictions, we can work on getting them whittled down but I think it would be very hard to have prohibitions on carry while intoxicated ruled unconstitutional.

  5. #5
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    Where in section 13 does it say that carrying openly is a right, but carrying concealed is a privilege? Where is the definition of infringed?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    ugh
    +1
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    t33j wrote:
    Where in section 13 does it say that carrying openly is a right, but carrying concealed is a privilege? Where is the definition of infringed?
    Nowhere, but that's the way the laws are now and the courts backed them.

    Sucks, but that's how it is (now).

  8. #8
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    It is absolutely legal, highly controversial, and frowned upon by a majority of those even in the pro 2A cause.

    Full disclosure, I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC, at least until the new legislation takes effect, including in full view of multiple LEOs. No significant issues, and none with LEOs.



  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Tweaker wrote:
    I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC
    Good luck with that and you are officially NOT INVITED to any OC dinners that I host.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  10. #10
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    Tweaker wrote:
    Full disclosure, I have and will continue to drink*while OC, at least until the new legislation takes effect, including in full view of multiple LEOs.** No significant issues, and none with LEOs.
    Where are you from? I think if you were to drink while OC'ing in Northern VA that would most likely cause some problems. Maybe not so much in some very rural parts of the state.

  11. #11
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    Jonesy wrote:
    If I read the revision to the statute correctly, it prohibits one who carries a concealed handgun from drinking, but does not prohibit an oc'er from drinking. That seems somewhat absurd. I agree with those who feel they should have just repealed the whole thing. And why can cops drink and carry?

    J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. [ A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. ] However, nothing in this subsection shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer [ or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute] . from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    Splitting some hairs/looking at how the rubber meets the road with this bill.


    Lets say: Someone open-carries into the restaurant, and is asked to conceal. They says ok and cover up. Then gun owner has a drink, say half a glass of wine or beer. i.e. does not become intoxicated.
    Question is he/she legal under the wording of this bill?
    After all he/she did not carry a concealed weapon onto the premises.

    Is to carry 'onto' mean to enter or to be on? That would be the determining factor. I would say under the bill as written that would be legal.

    Lets say:
    A gun owner has a single drink OCing in one restaurant/club then walks out of it and into another and covers up, would be fine. Again, I would think he/she would be legal.

    Am I wrong, but that is how I read the bill?

    Now lets it another way:
    If one entered a property concealed, uncovered and had a drink you would be in violation? ...because you met the conditions of carrying onto the property concealed and then had a drink. Does not specify that you have to still be concealing when you drink.

    Hmmm....the law and the English language is weird sometimes. Or am I way off???

    I nether condemn or condone someone having a drink wile armed....becoming intoxicated is another matter, BTW. I would not do drink wile OCing, but that is simply my personal choice.


    I find the last one scenario most disturbing because it might catch a gun owner that thought he was obeying the law by switching to OCing so he/she could say make a toast someone or something.

    Am I splitting hairs too much?

    :?



    *Edited to fix the worst sins against the English lauguage*

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    ed wrote:
    Tweaker wrote:
    I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC
    Good luck with that and you are officially NOT INVITED to any OC dinners that I host.

    +1! My traveling companion and I discuss before going into a restaurant if either of us wants to drink and if so, then whoever doesn't, carries. Usually we just choose not to drink while out. It's just smarter all around.


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    That is all well and good. We are all free to "pursue happiness" in our own way, do you agree? Can you accept that I have my own ideas about appropriate risk and faithin mydemonstrated will power?

    To each his own, and I am certainly not going to be lonesome without your personal invitation.

  14. #14
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    ClumsyCandy wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Tweaker wrote:
    I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC
    Good luck with that and you are officially NOT INVITED to any OC dinners that I host.

    +1! My traveling companion and I discuss before going into a restaurant if either of us wants to drink and if so, then whoever doesn't, carries. Usually we just choose not to drink while out. It's just smarter all around.
    Yea, the later is how we tend to do things as well. The main problem I have with OCing and drinking is the impression it gives. I would never want to put OCing in a bad light. If I or my girlfriend have a drink and the other is OCing.....I expect some will take away the same bad impression. I guess if I was OCing and the girl was not...and she decided she had to have a margarita at the Mexican restaurant I would not have a cow over it.



  15. #15
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    Tweaker wrote:
    That is all well and good. We are all free to "pursue happiness" in our own way, do you agree? Can you accept that I have my own ideas about appropriate risk and faithin mydemonstrated will power?

    To each his own, and I am certainly not going to be lonesome without your personal invitation.


    You are free to pursue happiness, but you also need to weigh the risks and costs associated with it. You are giving ALL of us a bad name. You need to think of how your actions while carrying reflect on ALL of us. The anti's don't see us individually, they judge all of us based on the negative actions of a few. If they did, I could be the poster child and there would be NO anti's. They see us all as mass murdering redneck neanderthals. And your drinking while carrying furthers that stereotype. If you need a drink THAT bad, that you MUST drink while carrying, then maybe you need to rethink the whole thing.


  16. #16
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    Actually, I am very pleased with the proposed legislation that strips our choice to drink in order to secure a new right to maintain CCW.



    I see all of your viewpoints about the "image" and the like. I have always maintained a calm, rational demeanor, and this ought to serve the purposes you state as desireable.



    I do not, however, place my desire to make adult, legal decisions over the possibilties of other's dislike or distain for same. Sawwry. Life is too short, and I think we can all agree that there is no pleasing all of the people.



    As soon as the new law takes effect, this will be a moo point. (as my least verbose friend says) I intend to maintain CCW and I look forward to the lack of nonsense. I still expect to OC on occasion, as I enjoy the both the chance to innoculate the ignorant and inform the open minded. I have had 90% positive encounters when doing so.

    I hear your concerns, and I hope you can respect my opinions as well.

    NEED and MUST drink were not part of my expressed thoughts, so don't misrepresent them! I also put my own freedom of choice over your concerns for your or our image. I am certain that I am not in the highest quartile of gun owners who exhibit negative stereotypes! If you still cannot respect my legal choice, that is your option. I have demonstrated both honesty and respect in discussing this, so I will ask for the same in return. In any event, I am not going to get all butt hurt.


  17. #17
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    Tweaker wrote:
    No significant issues

    :?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Tweaker wrote:
    CCW.
    It's a CHP in VA anyway, not a CCW


    Carry On.

    Ed

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  19. #19
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    Exactly. Like someone feels curious or motivated enough to initiate a conversation with a total stranger. I am fine with that. A positive and educational discourse typically follows.



    Sometimes I am faced with some flak or grief from someone who feels differently than I. Kind of like this thread right here. I would not post if I was going to have to deal with "significant" issues for doing the same.



    I am comfortable with my actions and decisions, and I think some of you here could stand do be a little more comfortable with your own. Your option, your life, our freedom. Ain't it great?

  20. #20
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    ed wrote:
    Tweaker wrote:
    CCW.
    It's a CHP in VA anyway, not a CCW


    Ya nailed me there. +0.0001 for you.

    I don't say "clips" anymore but I still frequently refer to cartridges as bullets. Am I to be dissmissed or just held up to ridicule?


    As this thread has really devolved, what if I just typed in

    YES IT IS LEGAL to the OP? I don't watch TV, so I guess I have the time to play with you guys a little.

  21. #21
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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    Jonesy wrote:

    J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. [ A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. ] However, nothing in this subsection shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer [ or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute] . from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    Is to carry 'onto' mean to enter or to be on? That would be the determining factor. I would say under the bill as written that would be legal.
    Does anyone know from a legal aspect????



  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Tweaker wrote:
    held up to ridicule?
    You nailed it. :-) touche'

    I understand your point, and you are free to make it.. and like you said, you are not breaking the law... 100% of us agree on that. About 95% agree that it puts ALL OC'ers in a bad light.

    Carry On.

    Ed

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  23. #23
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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    Jonesy wrote:

    J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. [ A person who becomes intoxicated while carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such a restaurant or club is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. ] However, nothing in this subsection shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer [ or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute] . from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    Is to carry 'onto' mean to enter or to be on? That would be the determining factor. I would say under the bill as written that would be legal.
    Does anyone know from a legal aspect????
    Just my guess, but I think if you got caught carrying concealed, and ended up in front of a judge and tried to argue that you carried "onto" openly, and then concealed, he or she is going to pause for about 2 seconds, maybe give a chuckle or two, then say GUILTY in a loud and clear voice.

    Now others have pointed out that there is no penalty provided for violating J3 of 18.2-308, so I don't know what the consequences are for doing this.

    Anybody know?

    TFred

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    TFred wrote:
    Not disagreeing with you, but I am more concerned with the reverse scenario.... Someone walks in concealed, takes off a coat.....now is opencarrying, orders a glass of wine....and is technically guilty as I read it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    DonTreadOnMe wrote:
    Not disagreeing with you, but I am more concerned with the reverse scenario.... Someone walks in concealed, takes off a coat.....now is opencarrying, orders a glass of wine....and is technically guilty as I read it.
    I see your point, they probably should have worded it more like "No person who is carrying a concealed weapon on the premises..."

    TFred

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