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Thread: Charlottesville - Cheeseburger in Paradise

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    I went to play free poker at CB in Paradise last night. http://www.charlottesvillefullhousepoker.com

    I went out to celebrate the VA Senate passing a bill to end the nonsensical requirement to expose oneself when carrying a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol.

    I was "asked to put my gun in the car" as is the usual polite denial of my rights tactic. (Luby's Diner in TX anyone?) I instead initiated a convo w/ one of the two managing partners, who made the "request":

    Mark Hurley 975-4386 C 566-5507

    ch8705@cheeseburgerinparadise.com

    It ranks as the least combative and most educational (for him) discussions I have had with a private enterprise authoritah figure. HE MAY BE OPEN TO OUR POINT OF VIEW. I was told that he does not want the other patrons to be "uncomfortable" upon seeing my firearm.

    There was no specific complaint that night, he maintained, but I believe otherwise, as another poker player (who hastold others he wants to "kick my ass in the parking lot") has repeatedly used my mandatory OC as a way to cause me grief. He even resorted to calling the CHO PD 911 during a poker tournament. I have destroyed him on the felt 3 times too many, apparently, and this is his only recourse, as he is old, fat, stoopid and not as good at poker as I, apparently.

    I remindedMr. Hurleythat while there is no "right" to befree fromdiscomfort, there does exist a right to bear arms. Had I been aware of the anti-self defense attitude that he until now only secretly possessed, I would not have entered his establishment to support him with my funds. He asked many questions as to firearms law in VA which I helped him to understand, and I volunteered many anecdotes as well as opinions supporting my position.

    The discussion ended after I told him that I did not appreciate being summoned away from my evening, I would not comply with his request to become a defensless victim, and that I would instead choose to vacate the premises, without paying for my now interrupted dinner.

    I made sure to inform him of the likely changes coming as far as OC/CCW in his establishment, and he stated that I would not be welcome to visit his establishment even whilst CCW. He was forced to admit to his anti-2A position, and I told him that I respect his right to enforce such positions, but that they do come with a financial cost. I explained that to make decisions based on the emotions of possible future random anonymous "others" seems foolish at best, and to disguise it by selective enforcement is in my opinion attempting to have it both ways. This leads to unneccessary confrontations and discussions, that are soon to become obsolete with the expected legislation permitting CCW in his restaurant.

    I feel that the CHO community of OC and CCW advocates have been largely content to report back with non-encounters with the local bidness' and law enforcement. Does anyone feel motivated enough to take action in the physical, non-interweb world?

    I have been denied OC at the following locations, all of which are not posted as such:

    Rivals Sports Bar - (stated I can't OC because they have a "liquor license" as opposed to a "beer license") That they last month lost their ABC license for failure to comprehend ABC law and subsequentlyceased operationsremainspoetic and beautiful justice. DOA - R.I.P.

    Wild Wing Cafe - See the following ass mang. Joshua French (how perfect is that last name Francophobes?) local TV interview in which he threatens to strip the 4th amendment rights from those who dare to exercise their 2nd amendment rights in HIS establishment,mhea:

    http://www.newsplex.com/video?clipID...entID=84361547

    http://www.wildwingcafe.com/our-loca...esville-va.php

    Best Buy CHO 434 977-1578

    Verizon branch, Ruckersville - Sign on door prohibiting OC, not weapons?!? Corporate response indicates they are fine with CCW and are NOT ANTI 2A.

    Are the CHO branches equally espousing such illogical signage? "We only hatethe guns we can see!"



    Again:

    Does anyone feel motivated enough to take action in the physical, non-interweb world?

    Would you be willing to enter these establishments to express yourself and defend your moral, ethical and legal beliefs? Will you at least make your thoughts known via telephone, mail or e-mail?

    Here is your opportunity. I do what I do, and spend my shekels where I choose to spend them based on my personal beliefs and principals. I don't think I am alone, but I would not act differently if I was. You people here at OC.com are a great resource of active advocates and not a bunch of FUDDS who are cool with silence and inaction that does not involve you directly.

    Walk the walk. Things are great here in VA, and are only getting better. VCDL has scored 90% of their goal legislation. Join a winning team and take action for yourself as well as your fellow citizens!


  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I can't speak for your local area, or for most of the venues you list, but I can say that I have OCed in Best Buys all around the mid-Atlantic region--in VA, NC, PA an WV--and never had a single issue...

    From your description of the event at the Poker Club (who goes to those anyway--you might as well stand in the street and throw your cash into the storm drain...) that you may have a bit of an atitude, and maybe THAT is where some of your difficulty is coming from. I mean, threatening to walk out without paying for dinner--even if you are asked to leave--is a little on the "low class" side. The way to handle that would have been to ask him if you could at least finish your meal, and THEN you'd leave, or to ask him if he would not charge you for the meal if you left right then...

    Seems to me, you are LOOKING for a confrontation. An that is NOT what this movement is about in states like VA. VA is oneof the most gun-friendly states in the Eastern US. You're not going to make any friends if you go into every situation looking for an argument...

    I don't mean nothin', I'm just sayin'...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Thanks for coming to the board with a hostile approach and holier-than-thou attitude that you are the only one willing to express your standings and beliefs. Have you not read much here? This is not a group that needs to be told to "walk the walk;" this is not a group that needs to be sung the praises of VCDL (although there may be a nice pat yourself on the back situation from time to time). In essence: you do not need to preach to the choir.



    Tweaker wrote:
    Full disclosure, I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC, at least until the new legislation takes effect...

    Could that have had anything to do with any of the people at any of the dining spots having a negative view of you?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Curtis wrote:
    Thanks for coming to the board with a hostile approach and holier-than-thou attitude"

    Tweaker wrote:
    Full disclosure, I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC,
    Could that have had anything to do with any of the people at any of the dining spots having a negative view of you?
    Curtis.. VERY well said.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    I like mine with lettuce and tomato, heinz 57 and french fried potatoes, big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer, well good god almighty which way do i steer for my....


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    Never happened to me argument..worked well for Hitler's victim groups, until it didn't.

    Uh, first line included "free" poker. FAIL! Why are you trying to use that angle to disfuse my position?

    My "attitude" likely has little to do with anything, if I am approached before communicating.

    I am low class because I don't want to pay for something I did not receive and was told, "we don't want your kind in mhea?" Otay...

    Confrontation - I described this as a positive experience for both the proprietor as well as myself, in the post!?! I left him with my contact info and we parted on amicable terms. Friends perhaps?

    You sound like a "polite woman."

    "Polite women never changed anything."- Bumper sticker

    Thanks for your input.

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    Curtis wrote:
    Thanks for coming to the board with a hostile approach and holier-than-thou attitude that you are the only one willing to express your standings and beliefs. Have you not read much here? This is not a group that needs to be told to "walk the walk;" this is not a group that needs to be sung the praises of VCDL (although there may be a nice pat yourself on the back situation from time to time). In essence: you do not need to preach to the choir.



    Tweaker wrote:
    Full disclosure, I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC, at least until the new legislation takes effect...

    Could that have had anything to do with any of the people at any of the dining spots having a negative view of you?
    I would say no, as I do not drink when playing even free poker tournaments, nor while visiting Best Buy or Verizon.



    Would you consider commenting on the entireity of my post that you parsed below?

    Drinking while OC
    "It is absolutely legal, highly controversial, and frowned upon by a majority of those even in the pro 2A cause.

    Full disclosure, I have and will continue to drinkwhile OC, at least until the new legislation takes effect, including in full view of multiple LEOs. No significant issues, and none with LEOs."

    In it, I gave full acknowledgment to your viewpoint, while you endeavored to skew my own words against me. I am fine with my position, and I am fine with your disagreement with it. Just please be more even-handed, and we can maintain a positive discourse. Thank you.



    I apologize if I came across as holier than thou. I was just trying to motivate, and perhaps I was less than skillful at doing so. I have always enjoyed the company of fellow 2A advocates, and have found the armed to be the most gregarious and courteous of any cross section of my fellow men.

    Be Well.


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    Yep yep, I'm the bad guy for offering another viewpoint and opinion.

    It's odd that you say you acknowledge a position in disagreement with yours but attempt to connote such negativity when said position is used to form a different viewpoint.

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    Uhh, I think we are done here, man. I clearly did not call you a "bad guy" for sharing a different opinion. I did not like your cutting and pasting an incomplete message from another post, to attempt to make me seem unreasonable, that is all.


    I just re-read, and I apologized for any offense, ffs.


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    In misinterpreting my position you connoted a high level of negativity in what you assumed I was trying to do, in effect calling me the bad guy.

    I was not attempting to make you seem unreasonable. I already explained my intention of simply offering another opinion and viewpoint... normally what forums are used for. To be so accusatory of others for selective reading and attempted wordplay you sure do enjoy doing it yourself.


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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I think the OP has proven in this thread that his "situations" in these various businesses are self-explanatory.

    I bet your mother is REAL proud of your sweet and cordial manner, there Tweeker...

    If you want to drink while carrying, then that's your deal, but I think I will have a chorus of support when I say I'd like a "heads up" as to where you'll be traveling, so I can avoid those cities like the plague when you're out on the town. I assume you are driving to these venues? So you're drinking, carrying and driving. Yeah, now THAT'S responsible....

    I'm done with this one. Why are all the trolls coming HERE all of a sudden?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Interesting. As I posted in the Charlottesville OC thread, myself and two others OC'd in there last Wednesday and had no issues. Even had a great OC conversation with our waitress..

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    Dreamer wrote:
    I think the OP has proven in this thread that his "situations" in these various businesses are self-explanatory.

    I bet your mother is REAL proud of your sweet and cordial manner, there Tweeker...

    If you want to drink while carrying, then that's your deal, but I think I will have a chorus of support when I say I'd like a "heads up" as to where you'll be traveling, so I can avoid those cities like the plague when you're out on the town. I assume you are driving to these venues? So you're drinking, carrying and driving. Yeah, now THAT'S responsible....

    I'm done with this one. Why are all the trolls coming HERE all of a sudden?
    I have and will continue to OC many many times. The "situations" you allude to were discussions in which I respected the rights of the private property owners. I am sure to be the more respectful and level headed one in the situation. That there have been so few encounters in which I was denied OC, is demonstrative of my "attitude."

    My mother does love me very much, DrEEmer.

    I thought of this last night. Do you realize that you are attempting to dissuade my legal behavior because your your opinions, feelings and emotions that I am causing you to feel? Can you seeyour obvious parallel with an anti-gunner who doesn't "like" or "feels uncomfortable" with a legal gun owners behavior.

    I feel extra good falling on my side of the argument now. I am being legal, you don't gotta like it. Just try to retain a little higher ground, maybe.

    You want to keep tabs on me and my whereabouts? Do you also want to see my papers, please?

    BAC below, 0.04, ya I think it is plenty responsable, as does the VA State Police and the VA legislature. A chorus of elected officials have agreed with me in creating legislation that supports such behavior. You are really quite the nervous nelly.

    You referenced: my mother, called me a troll, called me irresponsable for following all laws, low class, foolish for wasting money at a free poker game and somehow cannot spell my ID.

    You would do a much better job of defending your position if you could do so without having to resort to all of the base methods you have resorted to.

    It may be best that "you are done with this one." You are seemingly out of mental ammunition.

    I cannot comprehend how frequently some on the board get all butt hurt and holler, "you are looking for a confrontation!" when OCing. By the definition of OC, you will inevitably face some static. One has no control over how others react esp. if the person is biased against your behavior. I control my own actions, destiny and reactions.

    What I am suggesting, is that proprietors are made aware of how many people are willing to vote with their wallets based on the free choices by the management of these establishments. Quite logical. If you prefer to fling poop on teh interwebs, have at it.

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    SuperDad wrote:
    Interesting. As I posted in the Charlottesville OC thread, myself and two others OC'd in there last Wednesday and had no issues. Even had a great OC conversation with our waitress..
    1+
    I wasn't at this outing but I've eaten @ CBP twice in the past yr without incident.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Sorry to hear about all the bad luck in Charlottesville. It happens so keep your chin up. How long have you been OC'g?

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    This is interesting. I OC practically everywhere in Charlottesville, including Verizon Wireless, Wachovia (Well's Fargo) and Best Buy and have had the opportunity to inform their staff on the topic of 2A and OC all without incident. Sometimes they are way ahead of me as I posted in the Cville OC thread recently regarding Best Buy. I cannot speak to the causes of the bad experiences you have encountered, Tweaker, but I wouldn't write off these businesses so easily. As for getting 'physical', maybe we need to have more OC gatherings in town as a good start. I find that people are less likely to bother you when they are hungry ; and our turnouts haven't been the best. Strength in numbers.

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    I particularly liked the Wild Wings assistant managers "Dumb and Dumber" haircut. Its a good look for him.

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    I have been OCing for most of the past decade, but much more so in the last 5 years. Rarely at places that serve alcohol, although that makes up the majority of the times when I am faced with concern or misinformation.

    Usual stuff like:

    You have to conceal that in here!

    That is illegal to bring in here 'cause we sell alcochol!

    Do you have a permit (to OC)?

    We can't serve you, that is illegal.



    Again, there have been litterally hundreds of encounters, so the 5 or so that were disappointing is, I feel quite good, especially in the demographic here in Charlottesville. Their PD and the county has been exceedingly non-obtrusive. When I ask them their opinions about certain situations, they are knowledgeable and friendly every time.



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    Regum wrote:
    This is interesting. I OC practically everywhere in Charlottesville, including Verizon Wireless, Wachovia (Well's Fargo) and Best Buy and have had the opportunity to inform their staff on the topic of 2A and OC all without incident. Sometimes they are way ahead of me as I posted in the Cville OC thread recently regarding Best Buy. I cannot speak to the causes of the bad experiences you have encountered, Tweaker, but I wouldn't write off these businesses so easily. As for getting 'physical', maybe we need to have more OC gatherings in town as a good start. I find that people are less likely to bother you when they are hungry ; and our turnouts haven't been the best. Strength in numbers.
    That would be great, Regum. I finally got a job so I am going to be already in CHO until 5PM, instead of safe in the sticks N.

    Can you verify that CHO Verizon does not have the same signage that the Ruckersville branch does? No CCW, OC not mentioned? I only know of the one by the Mall, near Rivals. Is that where you go?

    The Best Buy situation may have been instigated by the presence of my canine companion, who was also invited to exit, and he only saw the fun at that point. I think that is how it happened, but the mgr. mentioned both things that he had a problem with.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Tweaker wrote:
    The Best Buy situation may have been instigated by the presence of my canine companion
    You brought your dog into Best Buy? Is your dog a service dog?
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Tweaker wrote:
    Regum wrote:
    This is interesting. I OC practically everywhere in Charlottesville, including Verizon Wireless, Wachovia (Well's Fargo) and Best Buy and have had the opportunity to inform their staff on the topic of 2A and OC all without incident. Sometimes they are way ahead of me as I posted in the Cville OC thread recently regarding Best Buy. I cannot speak to the causes of the bad experiences you have encountered, Tweaker, but I wouldn't write off these businesses so easily. As for getting 'physical', maybe we need to have more OC gatherings in town as a good start. I find that people are less likely to bother you when they are hungry ; and our turnouts haven't been the best. Strength in numbers.


    Can you verify that CHO Verizon does not have the same signage that the Ruckersville branch does? No CCW, OC not mentioned? I only know of the one by the Mall, near Rivals. Is that where you go?
    I go to the Pantops Verizon. I've had zero problems there. I haven't noticed any signage there. I'll look again next time I go.

  22. #22
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    What is a CHO?



  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    DrMark wrote:
    What is a CHO?
    CHO is the International Air Transport Association airport code for the Charlottesville-Albemarle airport.

    As is often the case, the IATA code is sometimes used as a nickname for the city itself, such as LAX for Los Angeles, or any number of other busy and popular airport codes: MIA, DCA, DEN...

    TFred


  24. #24
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Thanks TFred.

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    Tweaker wrote:
    The Best Buy situation may have been instigated by the presence of my canine companion
    You brought your dog into Best Buy? Is your dog a service dog? - ed



    I sure did, Edward, and there was no signage to prohibit that either.



    Should I expect you to accuse me of bestiality next, big bad ed? You already insinuated that Wylde and I are an item. You give Perez Hilton a run for her money in snarkyness.


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