OC havin a few beers @ home?

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I ANAL think that's the 'permissive presumption' part that is agreed to in exchange for the privilege to drive.

You give the state permission to presume guilt and impairment absent your empirical demonstration by a blood alcohol concentration test.

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Inresponse to the original question, you are not immune to being cited for being under the influence on your own property if you choose to drink and carry....:?

Shotgun wrote:

Not so fast Doug. In that section "intoxicant" includes, but is not limited to alcohol. The definition is necessarily vague because there's no way of chemically quantifying the effects of any possible intoxicant or combination of intoxicants.

The discussion here concerned only alcohol, and it is established that a BAC of .08 is considered under the influence in Wisconsin. I think one would be very hard pressed to convince a jury or judge that one is not "under the influence" with an alcohol level of .08 or above.

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.08 is an arbitrary amount which has nothing to do with being "under the influence"...

It is used as a stand alone standard for the prohibited Alcohol Content of your blood for the operation of a motor vehicle. As I mentioned in another thread. I recently served on a jury for a PAC/OUI case. The jury instructions suprised me.

When you get pulled over in WI, you are issued 2 citations. 1 for Prohibited Alcohol Content and the other for Operating Under the Influence. You may be convicted for Operating Under the Influence regardless of your BAC. You may be convicted for BAC regardless of OUI. You can pass every sobriety test known to man but if the lab in Madison says your blood contained .08% or above, you are toast...

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Glock34 wrote:

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

I'm old enough to remember the difference between per se intoxication and the permissive presumption of 'under the influence'.

The law is a beast of burden that lawyers ride to work.

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and I am old enough to remember when MTV played music video's, but it still won't buy me a cup of coffee.:?

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Funny and true G34. Times do change...

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Glock34 wrote: [/b]

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

I'm old enough to remember the difference between per se intoxication and the permissive presumption of 'under the influence'.

The law is a beast of burden that lawyers ride to work.

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and I am old enough to remember when MTV played music video's, but it still won't buy me a cup of coffee.:?

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MTV playing music videos??? i don't believe it.

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scorpio_vette wrote:

Glock34 wrote: [/b]

Master Doug Huffman wrote:

I'm old enough to remember the difference between per se intoxication and the permissive presumption of 'under the influence'.

The law is a beast of burden that lawyers ride to work.

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and I am old enough to remember when MTV played music video's, but it still won't buy me a cup of coffee.:?

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MTV playing music videos??? i don't believe it.

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My grandpappy once told me of a tale about Music Videos on music television, but I think it's like the story ofAtlantis. :lol:

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i remember the days of 46 cent a gallon gas, and 40 cents a pack smokes, hamburgers at mcdonalds were 30 cents. i think it was back like a week after they invented the wheel.

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McX wrote:

, and 40 cents a pack smokes

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now i know that you're just making shit up. never in the history of man could that have been possible.

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Off topic

I remember when my parents bi*ched about the price going up to .65 a pack.

they swore they would quit because they were being rapped.

On topic.

I still think that if your having a beer on your own property you would most lilely be left alone. You get wasted and start shooting thats another story.

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bigdaddy1 wrote:

Off topic

I remember when my parents bi*ched about the price going up to .65 a pack.

they swore they would quit because they were being rapped.

On topic.

I still think that if your having a beer on your own property you would most lilely be left alone. You get wasted and start shooting thats another story

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I'll try to contain myself:lol:

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Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:

I won't say no to a guy having a beer while carrying but I sure will if he is getting ready to shoot on a range with other people around. Formal or informal range doesn't matter, powder and alcohol don't mix

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Studies have shown that people exhibit similar and more impairment than they do when consuming some amounts of alcohol as they may be when they are tired, sick, etc.

If someone had a sleepless night, shall they not go to the range? Would you send someone home from the range who had a cold/sinus infection? A little inner ear infection can make someone's balance more affected than a few beers.

I'm not berating you, merely making the point that everyone needs to remember 2 things... First, they are responsible for their behavior and behavior has consequences.

While remembering those 2 things, I encourage people to use their own good judgement as to what they do, when they do it, etc.

True, unfortunately (with our nanny government) we are best to live within the law... having said that, just because something is illegal doesn't mean its wrong, and just because something is legal doesn't mean its right.

Use your own good judgement and be prepared for the consequences of your behavior.

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Didn't feel like you were berating me, I am just pointing out that while some, maybe most can still act responsibly with a beer or three in them some can't and no matter who you are enough alcohol will cause you to be a little more careless than you would be if you are sober and alert. A man with plugged up sinuses may be a little wobbly on his feet but the stuff between his ears should still function. If he is feeling ill enough to be wobbly chances are he won't feel like shooting. On the other hand some tyro with 3 beers and a 100 rounds of shooting experience may feel like Wild Bill Hickok.

My range, my rules, you either sit back and drink or you shoot. Lots of time for Jack Daniels after the guns are put away. I'll trust a sick man behind me with a gun before I will somebody feeling buzzed on medication, alcohol or recreational pharmaceuticals. The sick man is more likely to remove himself voluntarily from the range than a buzzed person will.

Coming from a family with alcoholism in it and a cultural tradition of heavy drinking, (anybody from the northwoods knows what I mean), and having lost friends from drunk drivers I am a little sensitive on the subject. I gave up drinking and smoking to become a shooter but that was my choice because I was serious about competition. I dont care what the guy next to me on the firing line does off the line but he better not be influenced while shooting next to me and cause me or other shooters harm because this old Bohunk gets down right testy. Bullet holes hurt and I don't want to lose my water tight integrity.

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My range, my rules, you either sit back and drink or you shoot.

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I don't have a problem with that.

I wasn't trying to extol the virtues of drinking and going to the range.

The subject matter was raised of OC'ing around the house. Not a situation where many of us are popping off rounds and handling our weapon alot.

When I OC I'm not typically using my weapon. Its merely there for emergencies (and obviously its a constant deterrent)

For me, to say that you should never drink at all and OC means that the minute you pop a beer you willingly render yourself more defenseless.

My gun won't come out of the holster in an OC situation for use unless my life, safety, or the life safety of someone else is in danger. As such, I'd rather have a few beers in me and be able to defend myself than needlessly leave the gun in the truck or in the case merely because I had a beer or two.

If I'm out with my girlfriend I don't like the fact that a criminal would know that if I come out of a restaurant or bar that serves alcohol, I'm unarmed.

We talk about the gun-free-school-zones AKA criminal empowerment zones. Places that handgun carry is banned merely because they serve alcohol takes away my right to make decisions for myself and places the typical "one size fits all but solves nothing" government nanny regulation in place.

Of course Wisconsin law dictates no handgun's in places that serve alcohol. I suppose strapping my AR to my back when I go to dinner is still an option.

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Landose_theghost wrote:

I mean I've beenknown tohave a few on my porch/yard whilst OC'n(not wasted,2-3 beers)and givin that this is technicly private property, is this legal to do? Or am I asking for trouble from the local LE? Or for that matter, what are the legalitities of havin a few and OC'n in my own home?

-Landose-

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Even if legal, why would you want to present this image to the public? Why would you want to put yourself at a disadvantage should you discharge your gun and have to defend yourself in a criminal or civil matter?

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why would you want to present this image to the public?

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The same argument could be made for not being clean shaven while oc'ing, or dressing a certain way while oc'ing etc.

I recognize the value of public image... but rights supersede image.

If its all about image... pour your beer in an opaque plastic cup... no one will know it from water...

Why would you want to put yourself at a disadvantage should you discharge your gun and have to defend yourself in a criminal or civil matter?

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Cause its pretty hard to defend yourself at all when you are dead because you had no method to defend yourself.

I don't advocate getting wasted... ever... but to suggest that the instant you have a drink you are better off unarmed and defenseless... that doesn't make sense.

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A picture is worth a thousand words:


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/DonaldDouglas/Americaneocon/beer01.jpg

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Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:

why would you want to present this image to the public?

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The same argument could be made for not being clean shaven while oc'ing, or dressing a certain way while oc'ing etc.

I recognize the value of public image... but rights supersede image.

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That's an apples and oranges comparison - arguing that the right to carry implies a right to drink while carying will get you laughed out of every public policy room in America - no drinking while carrying is not just common sense, the opposite palys into the opponents' hands.

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Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:

Why would you want to put yourself at a disadvantage should you discharge your gun and have to defend yourself in a criminal or civil matter?

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Cause its pretty hard to defend yourself at all when you are dead because you had no method to defend yourself.

I don't advocate getting wasted... ever... but to suggest that the instant you have a drink you are better off unarmed and defenseless... that doesn't make sense.

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A backwards argument - if you are going to carry in public, choose not to drink.

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Ithink the OP was a question of legality, not morality.

Has THAT question been answered?

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Landose_theghost wrote:

what are the legalitities of havin a few and OC'n in my own home? -Landose-

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The law does not mention this specific set of circumstances. Arguements by analogy, pro and con, can be made.

I drink in close proximity to unsecured guns and won't hesitate to put one on and go outside.

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As posted before- I would never ever ever put myself in a situation where I would be considered under the influence of alcohol- while carrying my pistol.

As posted before this has nothing to do with your right to drink or your preference- simply we all know that shit can hit the fan anytime and you will be defending yourself with a deadly weapon. Don't need the smell of beer on your breath when the cops show up- because the officers may discount your self defense story based on the fact that you were under the influence. This may only leave the other side of the story- which may lend your butt to a state prison.

For the record, one cannot help but drink with a pistol in the house.. I mean it's not necessary to put your guns in your car outside because you want to get wasted inside your house. Following the same logic- although a holstered handgun is more accessible- you should be able to maintain your wits about- either way.

So in other words- if you are okay with getting drunk in your house while your shotgun leans against the bedroom wall... well then you should be okay with having a beer or two with a pistol strapped to your hip.