Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: So what *is* terrorism then?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    This is relevant because of the need to OpenCarry. Read the FBI says this is not an act of Terrorism. Of course its an act of Terrorism -- they just don't want us to think it is!

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html


  2. #2
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    949

    Post imported post

    Terrorism is defined however we want to define it, to meet our political agenda at the time it is used. Words mean nothing anymore in this day and age. Look at the original definition below, and look at the modern day definition. Originally the source was government. Today the source of terrorism is people.

    The IRS uses terrorism (the state of fear and submission) to scare people into reporting "income" and filing taxes.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

    Word Origin & History
    terrorism

    1795, in specific sense of "government intimidation during the Reign of Terror in France" (1793-July 1794), from Fr. terrorisme (1798), from L. terror (see terror).

    "If the basis of a popular government in peacetime is virtue, its basis in a time of revolution is virtue and terror -- virtue, without which terror would be barbaric; and terror, without which virtue would be impotent." [Robespierre, speech in French National Convention, 1794]
    General sense of "systematic use of terror as a policy" is first recorded in English 1798. Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
    Cite This Source



    Today's definition:

    ter·ror·ism 

    –noun

    1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

    2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

    3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.


  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

    Post imported post

    Guy went off his rockers, and Stukka Dive bombed into the place, except he was no Luftwaffe pilot, he had no bombs, and he had no intention of pulling up...

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12/12-h/12-h.htm

    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"' '

    But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

    'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'

    'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

    'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master—that's all.'

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348

    Post imported post

    Not saying that I agree with what this mentally ill guy did, as It was wrong in most peoples eyes...... but, it should be a wake up call for the IRS & other Gov agencies....as the IRS, etc.. has hurt a lot of people & continues to hurt a lot of people with it's collection of obscene amounts of Tax Payers dollars. I am surprised this is the first time an act of violence like this has been committed upon the IRS.
    Some people will only take so much until they snap & when they do snap...the Gov won't know when, where or how.....
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348

    Post imported post

    tekshogun wrote:
    Guy went off his rockers, and Stukka Dive bombed into the place, except he was no Luftwaffe pilot, he had no bombs, and he had no intention of pulling up...
    I would say more like a
    Kamikaze Attack....
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    To quote Rahm Emanuel, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste..."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mzcbXi1Tkk

    I predict that this incident will result in massive restrictions on General Aviation. First they will require some sort of security devices to be placed on private aircraft that can only be unlocked by airport officials, and only AFTER flight plans are filed and approved.

    Then, there will be laws passed to require ALL general aviation craft to have "OnStar" type remote engine cutoff devices to be installed, so that if a craft is stolen, it can be brought down without shooting it down.

    Eventually, TSA will start pushing for those new body scanners to be installed at ALL airports, the cost of which will cause many small local airports to cease operation, which will pretty much bring an end to general aviation for anyone who isn't rich enough to have their own airstrip or can afford to hanger their craft at a commercial airport.

    Check back to this thread in a year, and see how many of these predictions you can check off...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348

    Post imported post

    Dreamer wrote:
    To quote Rahm Emanuel, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste..."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mzcbXi1Tkk

    I predict that this incident will result in massive restrictions on General Aviation. First they will require some sort of security devices to be placed on private aircraft that can only be unlocked by airport officials, and only AFTER flight plans are filed and approved.

    Then, there will be laws passed to require ALL general aviation craft to have "OnStar" type remote engine cutoff devices to be installed, so that if a craft is stolen, it can be brought down without shooting it down.

    Eventually, TSA will start pushing for those new body scanners to be installed at ALL airports, the cost of which will cause many small local airports to cease operation, which will pretty much bring an end to general aviation for anyone who isn't rich enough to have their own airstrip or can afford to hanger their craft at a commercial airport.

    Check back to this thread in a year, and see how many of these predictions you can check off...
    we live in a police state, nothing surprises me. Why did this happen in the first place ? because we live in a police state that says you must give ceasar 40 % of your wages.
    Yes, things will only get worse, but it's because our gobernment is power hungry & wants to strip away all of our freedoms & rights. AmeriKa
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    28

    Post imported post

    What ever happened to the phrase Domestic Terrorist? Does this mean free tax holiday?

    Lol the woman who drops donuts off at work was saying the pilot gonna be in trouble. the reaction on her face when I grabbed the paper and said nope this is what they meant by flew his plane into a building.

    I visited progressive's data center, and thought some of the procedures and were over the top. However earthen barrier around the building to prevent planes form easily hitting looks like it was good investment.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    Glock34 wrote:
    we live in a police state, nothing surprises me. Why did this happen in the first place?
    Can you say "false flag" boys and girls?...

    It just so happened to occur in Austin TX--a critical confluence of states rights/anti-NWO activism.

    Three rivers come together in Austin--Debra Medina, Ron Paul, and Alex Jones. This airplane was a desperate attempt to stem the rising tide, and to shift public sentiment against the "States Rights/Individual Liberty" sentiments that are gaining tremendous support in Texas, and gaining traction all over the country.

    Mark my words--by Saturday, there will be a media feeding frenzy trying to demonize ANYONE who has ideological problems with ANY part of the Federal government--anti-income tax people, folks who want to disband the Federal Reserve, Tea Partiers, anyone who claims to be a "constitutionalist", 2A rights folk, hard-core 1A rights people. They are NOT going to let this event go un-exploited. It won't be a "lone nut" story--this is going to be used and exploited to demonize ANYONE who DARES to speak out against the raping and pillaging of the American people by the "powers that be".

    The sound people heard yesterday in Austin was not JUST the sound of a small aircraft impacting and exploding against a building. It was also the sound of the "boots" coming down...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    I'm listening to WABC NY. In their top of the hour "news" they carried an expansive caution based on the IRS-aircraft attack. I haven't found any text yet.

    And the godfather is ranting on it too.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/patriot...ory?id=9889443

    Most were shocked by the charred scene of Joe Stack's kamikaze attack on a Texas IRS office, but for an alarmingly growing number of Americans Stack is a hero.

    The Web was studded with praise for Stack almost immediately after his plane slammed into the Austin office complex Thursday morning. The admiring salutes appearing on sites ranging from Facebook to the pages of extremist groups reflect what experts say is an "explosive growth" in the anti-government patriot movement.

    "Extremist groups are already aligning behind [Joe Stack], beginning to talk about him as a hero," said Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center which studies American militia and hate groups. "The growth of those groups has been astounding."

    Stack's suicide note, an angry rant against the IRS and the government which was posted online the morning of his death, got around 20 million hits before it was taken down at the request of the FBI, according to Alex Melen, president and founder of T35, the network service provider for the Web site where the note was posted.

    [The jeremiad is still available at http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...mp;Disp=15#C15 ]

    Melen, 25, said within minutes of taking the note down, the company was "bombarded" with around 3,000 e-mails demanding Stack's words be reposted. Some of the e-mails contained personal threats against Melen.

    "What's funny is most people were pretty much praising him," Melen told ABC News.
    Bob Schulz, founder of the anti-government We the People Foundation, said that while he only advocates non-violent means of protest, he can understand Stack's motives and said it is a reflection of a movement unlike any he's ever seen.

    "There's a huge patriot movement," Schulz said. "I've been doing this kind of work for 30 years. Never have I seen the likes of what's going on now. It's delightful."

    The anti-government movement gathered strength during the early 1990s, resulting in several high profile stand-offs with the FBI. Anti-government militias trained in the woods and prepared for a confrontation with the U.S. The militia movement peaked in 1995 when Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people.

    The anti-government movement became dormant until the mid-2000s. Potok said a militia and extreme anti-government movement, fueled initially by anti-immigration sentiment, is back in a big way, especially since President Obama took office.

    According to an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security, the current anti-government climate "parallels" what federal officials saw in the 1990s.
    "Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal through propoganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning," the report said.

    For many, Obama's election was a near perfect storm of disappointments, Potok said.
    "The longer term thing goes back seven or eight years due to immigration," Potok said citing the surge of border patrol militias like the Minutemen. "But Obama's election, which is in a way related to the non-white immigration issue, was representative proof that this country is irreversibly changing demographically. Then the economy has played a role and things have gotten worse and worse."

    The result is what Potok referred to as a "broad-based, right-wing populist rebellion," generally short of violent extremism.

    While not necessarily extreme itself, many groups in the overall movement are "shot through with radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism," Potok said. "Sometimes these attacks do serve as inspiration for other groups and individuals."

    One reason anti-government groups are embracing Stack, rather than distancing themselves from his extreme actions, is that he does not seem to be crazy, Potok said. It's a characteristic that troubles forensic pyschiatrist and ABC News consultant Dr. Michael Welner.

    "It's easy to get a sense that someone like snaps," Welner told "Good Morning America" today. "But this is the kind of crime that's planned for a long time... I don't find it to be psychotic. That's the problem here. It's rational."

    Schulz believes Stack was simply beaten to the point of desperation by the government.

    "The government is routinely allegedly violating the Constitution... Then when you call them on it, they ignore you too. That's enough to drive a lot of people together and to start, you know, some kind of movement," he said. "There are people that are out there so frustrated that say 'Hey it's time to lock and load.'"

    Schulz compared Stack's attack to McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombing, saying despite the desperation, any violent act is detrimental to the movement.

    "Anybody that commits a violent act against the government sets things back," Schulz said. "The government uses that as more reason to further clamp down... Timothy McVeigh set things back. Joe Stamp set things back."

    Online, it appears that many people disagree.

    "He sacrificed his life to inspire the quest for TRUTH," one Facebook poster said. "He deserves a memorial. A one man uprising... God Bless him."

    "This was quite heroic," said a member of Stormfront.org, a white supremacist Web site. "There is a gradual awakening underway."

    "This is just the beginning, prepare for battle!" another said.


  13. #13
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    You have to remember exactly WHAT the Southern Poverty Law Center is...

    They are funded almost entirely from endowments from large "foundations", among which are the Ford Foundation, the J.P. Mogan Chase Foundation and the Jay Pritzker Foundation.

    SPLC was started in 1971 by a couple lawyers from Alabama. according to their own records, they are the wealthiest "civil rights" organization in the nation, and their emplyees draw salaries that are TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars higher than ANY other civil rights orgs. Their salaries make the salaries for folks at the NAACP and ACLU look like paychecks for a burger-flipper at McDonalds...

    SPLC isn't about civil rights--it's about collecting donations and endowments to enrich it's directors, and suing people to empty their pockets.

    Even some scholars on the left, like Huffington Post blogger Carol Swain (professor of LAw at Vanderbilt) believe that SPLC has drifted away from their stated mission, and are now verging on becoming a "hate group" themselves, angrily targeting Conservative groups and individuals. And when HuffPo calls someone out as having gone too far, there must be something to it...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carol-..._b_255029.html

    If you're not careful, you will become that which you hate the most...

    And despite SLPC's front of being concerned about the rights and safety of minorities, women, and children, they are ardently anti-2A, and have never taken up a case in support of gun rights for minorities. Despite the hundreds (if not thousands) of unjust, racist Jim Crow gun laws still on the books, they seem to have turned a blind eye to this institutionalized racism, and do nothing to repeal or overturn the institutionalized policies of racist disarmament...

    They don't REALLY care about civil rights. What SPLC is REALLY interested in is lining their own pockets...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    Dreamer wrote:
    SPLC isn't about civil rights--it's about collecting donations and endowments to enrich it's directors,
    Hey! Sounds just like the NRA, 'ceptin this part
    and suing people to empty their pockets.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    This guy is not a hero, he attacked his own country with violence. Whether or not we agree with high taxes (and I do not, I'm a diehard libertarian) the people who worked in that building were honest, hard working Americans. One of them died, for no reason except that he was in the wrong place. Additionally, that building housed other companies and other people who were just getting up, going to work, trying to make an honest buck.

    Anyone who advocates violence against the United States government or it's citizens, or engages in that violence is a traitor, period. They are no different than Osama Bin Laden, flying planes into the WTC. (For those who don't know, I worked in 7 WTC). Anyone advocating violence against anyone in this country, instead of using the protected freedoms in the Constitution will never have my respect.

    Too many Americans have died protecting the Constitution and the Freedoms we enjoy. This guy is not a hero, he is a sick individual who instead of facing the day as every one of do, despite many of our financial hardships, he took the easy way out and hurt others while doing it. There are many, many people who were in a much worse situation including soliders and marines who have come back to war with their arms blown off, with little job prospects, but work hard and act like the heros they are.

    Also, the claim that the "Patriot Movement" is calling him a hero is hogwash. Perhaps there are a few nutcases out there, but most members of the Patriot movement are not this way, and classifying them all is a disgusting tactic that ABC should be ashamed of. It's the same BS that often the media spouts, claiming that all conservatives are somehow racist KKK members.

    I pray that people wake up and know he is not a hero. Whatever your political viewpoints are, this is still the United States of America, and I'm damn proud to be an American. Period.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    across Death's Door on Washington Island, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,382

    Post imported post

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/...sh_terrorism_2

    Plane attack prompts debate over terrorism label
    AUSTIN, Texas – When a man fueled by rage against the U.S. government and its tax code crashes his airplane into a building housing offices of the Internal Revenue Service, is it a criminal act or an act of terrorism?
    For police in Austin, it's a question tied to the potential for public alarm: The building set ablaze by Joseph Stack's suicide flight was still burning Thursday afternoon when officials confidently stood before reporters and said the crash wasn't terrorism.
    But others, including those in the Muslim community, look at Stack's actions and fail to understand how he differs from foreign perpetrators of political violence who are routinely labeled terrorists.
    "The position of many individuals and institutions seems to be that no act of violence can be labeled 'terrorism' unless it is carried out by a Muslim," said Nihad Awad, director of the Washington-based Council on Islamic-American Relations.
    Within hours of Thursday's crash, which several witnesses said stirred memories of the Sept. 11 attacks, both federal and local law enforcement officials, along with the White House, said it did not appear to be an act of terror. A widely quoted statement issued by the Department of Homeland Security also said officials had "no reason to believe there is a nexus to terrorist activity."
    Yet at the same time, Stack's motives for flying his single-engine plane into a seven-story office building after apparently setting his house on fire were becoming clear as detectives, reporters and others found a rambling manifesto on the Web in which he described a long-smoldering dispute with the IRS and a hatred of the government.
    In the note, Stack said he longs for a big "body count" and expresses the hope that "American zombies wake up and revolt."
    "To keep the government from getting money, he burned his house. To keep them from getting money he crashed his airplane," said Ken Hunter, whose father Vernon, a longtime IRS employee, was the only person killed by Stack's attack. "That's not the act of a patriot. That's the act of a terrorist, and that's what he is."
    Stratfor, an Austin-based global intelligence firm specializing in international risk management, said the rhetoric in Stack's rant clearly matches the USA Patriot Act's definition of terrorism: a criminal act that is intended to "intimidate or coerce a civilian population to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping."
    "When you fly an airplane into a federal building to kill people, that's how you define terrorism," said Rep. Michael McCaul, a Texas Republican whose district includes Austin. "It sounds like it to me."
    It doesn't to Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo, who instead sees an isolated, criminal attack carried out by a lone individual. He said branding the crash as terrorism so soon after the plane's impact could have provoked unnecessary panic and prompted residents of Austin and beyond to erroneously conclude that other attacks might be imminent.
    "I did not want to use it because I didn't want people that have children in school and loved ones at work to be panicking, thinking that, 'Oh my God, is there going to be 10 more little planes around the country crashing into buildings?'" Acevedo said. "I knew that this appeared to be one guy in one city in one event."
    Other experts agree. Ami Pedahzur, a professor of government at the University of Texas and author of the book "Suicide Terrorism," said that while Stack's actions might be viewed as a copycat version of 9/11 attacks, they fall short of terrorism.
    Pedahuzur said there is no evidence that Stack was involved in a highly planned conspiracy, and descriptions of Stack's state of mind in the days before the crash suggest the software engineer "snapped" after suffering an emotional breakdown. His manifesto was filled with rants that were just as personal as they were political, such as his complaint that corrupt politicians are not "the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say."
    Pedahuzur compared the incident to the criminal rampage depicted by Michael Douglas in the 1993 movie "Falling Down," in which an unemployed defense worker angry at society's flaws goes on a rampage.
    "(Stack) seems to be trying to cover up a personal crisis with some type of political agenda," Pedahzur said. "It looks like terrorism, but basically it's a story of a person whose anger was building up. It's more of a personal issue than a large movement."



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •