Sometimes, an "F" is a good thing...

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DaemonForce wrote:

They shouldn't have to do that. There should be armed guards in there to protect students. I'd like to see students open carry on campus but it's likely a few certain people would just cause problems and ruin it for everyone. The alternative is a secured access environment.

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Which is not possible for a university campus, and not the governments responsibility.

You have to have access control points to make a secured access environment, and short of a few tech and community collages, it would be logistically impossible.

Places of learning are suppose to be environments of learning, an intermediary community that teaches and prepares people for the real word they are soon to be entering. Not locked down micro prisons that teach people to cover their eyes and ears and chant "there is no evil, and I am not responsible for protecting myself".

And there are ALREADY armed guards on campuses, but as with the real world, they cant be everywhere at once, and when seconds count....well, we all know the rest.

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FMCDH wrote:

And there are ALREADY armed guards on campuses, but as with the real world, they cant be everywhere at once, and when seconds count....well, we all know the rest.

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All true but this in particular worries me. Conceal carry doesn't do anyone any good. I don't know anyone that furtively carries more than one weapon. Students should have the right to defend themselves without worry of legal limbo or being kicked off of campus for exercising their rights. Someone freaking out about a gun every other day doesn't help either. It's good to hear about the armed guards thing too since I haven't been in school in a really long time. When I was going to college there would be two guards across a 3/4 mile sized campus. Just a small school but there were only two guards and they didn't carry. I guess you can think of them like a mall ninja in training. The only bad part about this is that it doesn't protect anyone. I guess the next step is to increase the number of guards.

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DaemonForce wrote:

FMCDH wrote:

You mean preempting a university's ability to punish staff or students who carry on university property, right?

Its already "legal" as far as state law is concerned for people to carry.

The major hiccup being that the state has give publicly funded universities the ability to trespass as if they are private property.

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They shouldn't have to do that. There should be armed guards in there to protect students. I'd like to see students open carry on campus but it's likely a few certain people would just cause problems and ruin it for everyone. The alternative is a secured access environment.

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Oh you mean like a military base? With big electric fences & armed MP's, and only authorized people can get thru the gate? Worked real good at Ft. Hood....

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FMCDH wrote:

You mean preempting a university's ability to punish staff or students who carry on university property, right?

Its already "legal" as far as state law is concerned for people to carry.

The major hiccup being that the state has given publicly funded universities the ability to trespass as if they are private property.

Edited to add an n....doh

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Yes, I was referring to the Utah statute that specifically allows for students to carry concealed on University campuses in the state. I'm aware of what is "legal" in WA and what the WACs allow the universities to do in terms of trespass and student discipline. I am also frustrated by it. If we had a RCW specifically protecting our state constitutional right to be armed to defend ourselves without impairment on college campuses I would be happier. We shouldn't need that RCW, but we do because of the way law is being practiced and enforced in this country.


DaemonForce wrote:

[SNIP] Conceal carry doesn't do anyone any good. I don't know anyone that furtively carries more than one weapon. [SNIP]

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I realize this is the open carry forums, however, I disagree with your hyperbole. Concealed carry does do plenty of good. How many university shootings has Utah had since they protected concealed carry by statute? Furthermore, what is the national trend in violent crime as the "right to carry" laws are passed in the various states vs the states without "right to carry" laws? Utah hasn't had any college shootings since their laws protecting campus carry were passed. Read Lott and you'll find that there is an inversely proportional relationship between violent crime and right to carry states/areas; as carry permit numbers increase, violent crime decreases. Read "The Armed Citizen" reports in any NRA publication each month... I think it's rather elementary to conclude that "concealed carry does plenty of people plenty of good."

I open carry often. I concealed carry just as often, if not more often. In fact, I am rarely without 2 or more weapons. I don't like the idea of open-carrying without a concealed backup and I don't always open-carry. I know many people who carry more than one weapon on them. In fact, most of the people I associate with from this board carry more than one firearm regularly and lawfully.

However, you used the word "furtively" which has an entirely different legal implication. None of the people I associate with carry "furtively" but I "know of" the existence of many people who do carry more than one weapon furtively; gang members. I don't know them personally and I don't associate with them, but it's a sure bet that gang members are furtively carrying more than one weapon... There's an old police adage; where there's one, there's more. This didn't come about because criminals were only furtively carrying one weapon; it's because they frequently have more than one. Concealed carry is doing them plenty of "good" too; it's unlawful behavior to support their criminal enterprise, but it's still doing them "good" in terms of their income and their survival.

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Metalhead47 wrote:

Oh you mean like a military base? With big electric fences & armed MP's, and only authorized people can get thru the gate? Worked real good at Ft. Hood....

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I've thought about it but that seems like a bad idea. I guess what I'm thinking of classifies as a "sterile" area. Oh God...Bad memory. A select group of individuals have proven to me that even if you ban metal in an environment, you still run the risk of allowing dangerous weapons through. This is why there's no such thing as security. There's no safety net for preventing danger. Period.

shad0wfax wrote:

In fact, I am rarely without 2 or more weapons. I don't like the idea of open-carrying without a concealed backup and I don't always open-carry.

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Thank you. You have defined my active view on concealed carry. This place must be getting to me because my language is getting weird. Sorry forany confusion. The last time I checked I live in Washington State. As much as I would like the effectiveness of firearms to mirror Utah's ideals, it pains me knowing their laws and common sense don't extend to Washington and the people herein. :uhoh:

Fake Edit: I still need lunch.

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The alternative is a secured access environment.

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That's not an alternative, that's completely impractical in this case. Consider that the University of Washington main campus student body is larger than the combined populations of Chehalis + Centralia...