imported post
Leader wrote:
1245A Defender wrote:
T Vance wrote:
malignity wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
And an idiot, shooting at a fleeing suspect.
Yep, could be asking for a criminal charge. I know his adrenaline was probably rushing after having a gun pointed at him, even if it was only a "starters pistol", but you have to know when you can lawfully shoot to defend yourself.
the only right time to shoot this robber was when he pulled and pointed the gun, even if he could tell it was a starter pistol, he didnt need to tell anybody he knew it could not shoot him.
at that instant he should have shot the robber in self defence!
Sure sounds to me like a perfect example of the "fleeing felon" clause in the law.
Armed robbery IS a felon and the guy WAS fleeing.
http://www.ammoland.com/2010/01/11/michigan-rules-for-arrest-advice-to-gun-owners/
Michigan Rules for Arrest, Advice to Gun Owners
by Daniel Bambery, Author of “A Common Sense Guide to Michigan Gun Laws”
Michigan – -(AmmoLand.com)- An arrest is the stopping or restraint of a person that requires them to remain within certain specified limits. Any time someone stops me from going where I have a right to go, I have been
“arrested”. When the security guard stops me from leaving the store and asks to look into my shopping cart; when the TSA employee demands to see my boarding pass; when a child stands in the door and wants me to stay home and play; when the police officer pulls me over I have been arrested.
The question is whether the arrest is proper and how much force is allowed in making a proper arrest.
The rule of reasonableness applies throughout the rules governing arrest. To avoid consequences in all situations, the actions of the person making the arrest must be reasonable.
A private person can use more force than a police officer to arrest a fleeing felon without criminal consequences; but in more limited circumstances. Michigan courts have ruled that the use of deadly force by a private person to prevent the escape of a fleeing felon is justifiable where the following three circumstances are present: (1) the evidence must show that a felony actually occurred, (2) the fleeing suspect against whom force was used must be the person who committed the felony, and (3) the use of deadly force must been necessary to ensure the apprehension of the felon. (That is, if the arrestee resists the arrest or would escape without the use of deadly force.)
This third circumstance is another way of saying the use of deadly force must be reasonable. If the fleeing felon has stopped and is awaiting the arrival of the police, the use of deadly force is not reasonable. Likewise the use of deadly force before calling out to the felon to stop is probably unreasonable.
On the other hand a police officer is bound by the constitutional prohibition against unreasonable arrests. The U. S. Supreme Court has ruled that it is per se unreasonable for a police officer to use deadly force to stop a nonviolent fleeing felon who poses no danger to the officer or others. Thus, there is a fourth circumstance that applies to the police but the police can arrest with probable cause. So the rule for police use of deadly force is: 1) the officer must have probable cause to believe that a felony actually occurred, (2) the officer must have probable cause to believe the fleeing suspect against whom force was used is the person who committed the felony, (3) the use of deadly force must been necessary to ensure the apprehension of the felon, and (4) the fleeing felon must pose a danger to others if not stopped. (The danger can be shown by the nature of the crime the person is fleeing from. An armed robber is always dangerous. A burglar may be dangerous.)
A private person may make an arrest without civil consequences for the arrest if the person arrested has actually committed a felony. Probable cause or a reasonable belief is not good enough. The arrestee must actually be a felon. Liability can still attach if the arrest was done in an unreasonable manner.
Police may arrest without a warrant with probable cause to believe a felony has been committed and probable cause to believe the person arrested committed it, or if a misdemeanor has been committed in the officer’s presence. An officer can always arrest if a warrant exists for the arrest.
Michigan has changed many traffic violations from misdemeanors to civil infractions. There is now a specific statute allowing officers to detain motorists upon reasonable belief that the motorist committed a civil infraction.
An improper or false arrest is rarely a criminal act. If the person making the false arrest forces the person arrested to go to another location it may become the crime of kidnapping. If the arresting person unreasonably uses deadly force and the arrestee dies it can be murder. But absent such aggravating circumstances the remedy for a false arrest is a civil suit for damages. Damages can include such things as mental anguish for public embarrassment, lost wages, costs of therapy needed to get over the embarrassment etc.
A merchant or librarian, or their employee, may arrest a person if the merchant has reasonable cause to believe that the person has stolen something from the store or library. Reasonable cause is often a tricky concept. Often the merchant will ask the person if they have something that belongs to the merchant or to voluntarily accompany them to the back of the store. The best procedure of course is for the merchant to actually see the person put the steaks inside their pants before leaving without paying.
A licensed, uniformed security guard has all the arrest powers of a police officer while on his employer’s premises.
If wrong, a merchant or librarian is not liable for mental anguish or punitive damages if the arrest was made with probable cause and in a reasonable manner. He is still liable for actual damages.
A theater owner can arrest, and hold for the police, a person the theatre owner has reasonable cause to believe was recording the movie.
It is good to reiterate that an arrest must always be reasonable and done in a reasonable manner. If a person avoids any criminal consequences from using force in making an arrest, they can still be liable for civil damages if they made an unreasonable arrest or made a reasonable arrest in an unreasonable manner.
(Emphisis Mine) Also see People v. Couch (1990) where the MSC held that Tn v. Garner....