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Thread: Your thoughts, senario

  1. #1
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    I was thinking about a scenario earlier and I would like your thoughts on it.

    Lets say there's a man that was mugged and the mugger killed his wife and child or other family member.

    Mugger is caught later and taken to court, but not convicted for evidence reasons but as far as the man is concerned he is 100% sure that this is the person. Man shoots the mugger either in the courtroom or shortly after the verdict.

    (kind of like Christian bale in batman or Gerard Butler in law abiding citizen)

    What do you think of this man? Is it justifiable? Would you do the same? Obviously you get caught and go to jail, etc, but...

    I'm not sure if I'd glorify this man, but I could see where he's coming from.





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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    old movie " a time to kill "
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    I wouldn't convict him. To me it would be justifiable homicide.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Sometimes doing the right thing isnt legal and vise versa....

    I would vote for him in the next elections..lol

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    He would probably end up dead, just not in the court room....

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    Would you shoot O.J.?

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    I understand, but I do not agree. Poetic justice, but then the victim is no better than the perp. If you believe in the Constitution for yourself, you must believe in it for others, even murderers. God will repay, in the end.

  8. #8
    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    I understand, but I do not agree. Poetic justice, but then the victim is no better than the perp. If you believe in the Constitution for yourself, you must believe in it for others, even murderers. God will repay, in the end.



    I agree. Revenge is NOT part of our legal system, just our own ego and emotions... the same logic that gun grabbers use to take away our 2nd Amemdment rights.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    911Boss wrote:
    He would probably end up dead, just not in the court room....
    We are all going to end up dead; it's just a matter of time.

    Now, if the guy was older, and he didn't have that many years of freedomto lose, he might figure it was worth it to avenge the murder of his family. He might even go to his grave with a smile on his face, hypothetically of course.

  10. #10
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    While it might sound like appropriate "justice" it kind of denies the party of one of his constitutional rights. The one of Due Process. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to shout out our indignation when one of the rights WE believe in is infringed yet consider denying another of the enumerated rights to another.

    This type of justice is somewhat a cornerstone of a social order we reject here in this country. That of the militant muslims.

    The bad guy in this scenario got off because of issues with the evidence. If those responsible for investigating, arresting, and prosecuting had done their job correctly this would not have been an issue. Sadly the bad guy gets to go free but for some reason they always seem to get their just rewards, eventually.

    All that said, if I was on the jury I wouldn't vote to convict.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Jury nullification, which voting not guilty would be, sort of, is certainly part of our constitutional republic.

    MD

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    Legally he's guilty. This was clearly not self defense.

    Morally.... that's up to the jurors. Just depends on how and why (the circumstances) and what his attorney's and Prosecutor's do.
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    0V3RC10CK3D wrote:
    Obviously you get caught and go to jail, etc, but...
    Then you did it wrong.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Although I sympathize with this man and he did what he thought would "equal" his loss. And I believe the perp got what he deserved.

    I also believe in something that has been going astray in our system. That is that it is better to let one guilty man go for the sake of justice and liberty than to imprison innocent men on the all too common "circumstantial evidence".

    Some comments about our justice system it has definitely changed from since the founding fathers. Lynch mobs, posse's, duels etc. were often commonly accepted ways of dishing out justice. We didn't even have police forces until well after the constitution around the 1850's I believe. Other than Sheriffs and town constables (who were often drafted or elected and served without pay).

    Initiation and investigation of criminal cases was the nearly exclusive province of private persons.


    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Machoduck wrote:
    Jury nullification, which voting not guilty would be, sort of, is certainly part of our constitutional republic.

    MD
    +1

    And to David.Car
    LOL!

    (Since I don't know how to do multiple quotes without typing it in)


    Also, this reminds me of the movie Shooter, at the end when the AG Russert said something about, it's not the wild west no more, can't clean up the streets with a gun, but sometimes that's exactly what's needed.

    Not saying anything, it just reminds me of that.


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

  16. #16
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    While it might sound like appropriate "justice" it kind of denies the party of one of his constitutional rights. The one of Due Process. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to shout out our indignation when one of the rights WE believe in is infringed yet consider denying another of the enumerated rights to another.

    This type of justice is somewhat a cornerstone of a social order we reject here in this country. That of the militant muslims.

    The bad guy in this scenario got off because of issues with the evidence. If those responsible for investigating, arresting, and prosecuting had done their job correctly this would not have been an issue. Sadly the bad guy gets to go free but for some reason they always seem to get their just rewards, eventually.

    All that said, if I was on the jury I wouldn't vote to convict.
    +1, but I add...

    We each have to follow our convictions, and if this person thought they were so 100% correct that they needed to take the law into their own hands to see "justice" done,the way that THEY wanted it done, then let that be on them.

    HE then gets HIS day in court, and he can live with his satisfied convictions in prison or freedom, for the rest of his life, however long that may be.

    If you break a law, no matter how right you may believe you are, you should be willing and prepared to suffer the consequence of your choices.

  17. #17
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    FMCDH wrote:
    amlevin wrote:
    While it might sound like appropriate "justice" it kind of denies the party of one of his constitutional rights. The one of Due Process. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to shout out our indignation when one of the rights WE believe in is infringed yet consider denying another of the enumerated rights to another.

    This type of justice is somewhat a cornerstone of a social order we reject here in this country. That of the militant muslims.

    The bad guy in this scenario got off because of issues with the evidence. If those responsible for investigating, arresting, and prosecuting had done their job correctly this would not have been an issue. Sadly the bad guy gets to go free but for some reason they always seem to get their just rewards, eventually.

    All that said, if I was on the jury I wouldn't vote to convict.
    +1, but I add...

    We each have to follow our convictions, and if this person thought they were so 100% correct that they needed to take the law into their own hands to see "justice" done,the way that THEY wanted it done, then let that be on them.

    HE then gets HIS day in court, and he can live with his satisfied convictions in prison or freedom, for the rest of his life, however long that may be.

    If you break a law, no matter how right you may believe you are, you should be willing and prepared to suffer the consequence of your choices.
    This is sort of the same scenario that played out in real life several years ago. Does anyone else remember the California mother that brought a gun into court, walked up behind the guy on trial for molesting (or raping)her son, and shot him in the back of the head. She was tried and convicted, I just don't remember if it was 1st Degree Homicide or Manslaughter.


    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  18. #18
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Would you shoot O.J.?
    Difficult to answer. Yes, No, Maybe, yes again, let me think, why not, well no, maybe yes. Can't really make up my mind. Maybe I'll decide before he gets out of jail but then again, why waste the ammo.

    Why can't we just forget OJ. Ignoring him is a blow to his ego. Let him become a meaningless old man in prison. When he gets out everyone should be saying OJ Who?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    amlevin wrote:
    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Would you shoot O.J.?
    Difficult to answer. Yes, No, Maybe, yes again, let me think, why not, well no, maybe yes. Can't really make up my mind. Maybe I'll decide before he gets out of jail but then again, why waste the ammo.

    Why can't we just forget OJ. Ignoring him is a blow to his ego. Let him become a meaningless old man in prison. When he gets out everyone should be saying OJ Who?
    If I caught him in the act of slicing peoples throats. He got the verdict he should have in that trial, I think he is guilty as sin, but it was all circumstantial. If this was someone without all his money they would have been found guilty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    Revenge is a dish best served cold.

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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    Revenge is a dish best served cold.
    Ya and at 750yds

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    Late 70s New Orleans 2 cops escorting a child molester back to stand trial thru the airport thefather of the 2 kids pretended to be on the pay phone and as the Leos and BGgot even with dad he dropped the phone turned and shot the BG in the head dropped the gun and surrendered all captured on a TV news camera. He was found inocent on all charges by a 12 person jury. I cant remember the exact year but it was when I lived in Texas and it made the news big time at least in that part of the country.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Orphan wrote:
    ...thefather of the 2 kids pretended to be on the pay phone and as the Leos and BGgot even with dad he dropped the phone turned and shot the BG in the head dropped the gun and surrendered....
    That is called pre-meditated 1st degree murder. Vigilate justice (no matter how deserving the recipientis) can not exist in a civil society. Does that change what happened to his kids? Does it somehow make it "right?"



  24. #24
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    oldkim wrote:
    Legally he's guilty. This was clearly not self defense.


    Not true.



    Polilce officers can shoot at fleeing felons as they are a DIRECT THREAT to the general population.



    Same would apply to a murderer who 'got away with it' on a technicality.



    If he did it once, he'll do it again... Killing him would remove the threat from the community.



    Is it an IMMINENT threat, probably not.



    I'd send the guy to a mental hospital for an evaluation and call it good.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    Orphan wrote:
    ...thefather of the 2 kids pretended to be on the pay phone and as the Leos and BGgot even with dad he dropped the phone turned and shot the BG in the head dropped the gun and surrendered....
    That is called pre-meditated 1st degree murder. Vigilate justice (no matter how deserving the recipientis) can not exist in a civil society. Does that change what happened to his kids? Does it somehow make it "right?"

    You hit it on the nail, now if you kids will stop taking your information from movies.

    No doubt this topic was derived from Legally Armed Citizen which should have been named Vigilante.

    For one to consider such an action or act upon it is acting outside the law and thus a criminal, in no way can one play Judge, Jury and Executioner.

    Keep feeding the anti gun zealots out there with such stupid stupid discussions, if you do not know better then you do not need to be carry a firearm.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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