imported post
I have to politely disagree with you, Barf. Please let me know if I have this backwards- Follow this post
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum13/26873.html
I am going to copy and paste just a few points I made.
I walked away and thought "How could we even be HAVING this conversation? What's going through someone's head when they decide to question that authority?
Look, I understand that one may need to clarify whether this person (asking you to leave) is a cashier, a manager, or a General Manager. I totally get that. You don't want a cashier telling you to leave. Why? Because he has no authority over the occupants of the store.
If there are any doubts, in anybody's mind, God help us. I don't need these kind of people walking my streets or living next to me. I'll just walk in.. So what if the cashier asks me to leave? Unless it's the "manager", I'm not going anywhere...
After thought, who the Hell even really knows who has "Authority" over store occupants anyway? Policy differs from private place to private place, remember. You may find yourself in a store where the 73 yr old Customer Meet and Greet has the authority to tell you to leave. If you blow her off for the "manager" you are screwed when the cops showed up- You only get one chance to leave before you're criminally liable. You may have waived that right without knowing it, holding out for that "manager."
yeah, i would totally ask to speak with a manager. but beyond that, i'm not gonna argue. either they want my business or they don't. there isn't much to discuss after they ask you to leave.
About the "manager" thing... Look I am NOT trying to pick at this issue but I feel like I HAVE to clear this up with an example.
I own a business. I manage the business from home. I hire Ron to be the greeter. I say, "Ron, if anybody comes into this building with a gun I need you tell them to leave. If they don't leave call the police right away."
Days later, Bomber comes into my store OC. Ron stops him at the double doors. Ron says, "Sorry, Bomber, but you cannot carry your weapon here. I need you to leave now."
Bomber says, "No offense, Ron, but I would like to speak with your manager about this." Bomber keeps walking (or stands still) -
EITHER WAY- NO matter what happens from this point forward- Ron's reaction will be the same
Ron calls 911 immediatly to report this. Officers are on the way.
I get a phone call, at home, from the police. They tell me that a man with a gun entered my business and did not leave when requested to do so. Would I like to press charges for.. you guessed it.. Trespassing.
Even if Bomber made it passed Ron, to the "manager", he was already asked to leave once- officially. The manager will repeat Ron's words. The cops arrive and the manger says.. We told the guy to leave more than once. That's all the cops need to hear. You needed to leave the first time. If you left between talking to the manager and the cops showing up- you are on camera.
Guys.. It's literally THAT easy to get into a bind. Even easier if I, the owner, had posted a No Firearms sign.
The entire world doesn't work like Walmart or Sam's Club or Home Depot. There is no need for a chain of command in a private establishment.
Once again.. in a private establishment there is NO need for any type of chain of command.
You walk into my HOUSE OC and my aunt asks you to leave.. Legally you still have to leave.. Even though it was my aunt and not ME, whom you spoke with. When Me, the owner, backs up the aunt on the call- the cops won't hesitate to move forward with charges.
Er... Desettle is correct. Furthermore, employees acting in good faith commensurate with store policy, be it verbal or written, are duly authorized agents of that store by virtue of their employment with that store, within the limits delineated in store policy and law.
Thus, if store policy says "no firearms," any employee of that store, all the way down to the 16-year-old night restocker, carries "agency" for the store, and represent the interests of the store if they ask you to leave. There are legal limits for those under 18 with respect to liability (such contracts being held non-binding without an adult's authorization), but that's to protect both the store and the minor. Even the five-year-old son of a small business owner can legally ask you to leave if he's in the store's employ.
Thus, if I were asked to leave, I'd leave, and would return later, sans weapon, to request a conference with a manager to clarify policy.
For more information I would look up your Louisiana State Code (state laws) on three terms:
First Degree Criminal Tresspassing, Second Degree Criminal Tresspassing, and Third Degree Criminal Tresspassing.