Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Constitutional Carry sabotaged during Senate hearing.

  1. #1
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Earlier this afternoon (February 18, 2010), the Senate debated SB 1102 in the Committee of the Whole (COW). The COW debate is the last chance for a bill to get amended before a formal (Third Read) floor vote by the full Senate. During the COW debate, Democrat Senator Ken Cheuvrontsubmitted a hostile amendment, right out of the Brady Center playbook, which would make it a class 4 felony to not verify citizenship on any private sale conducted at a gun show. This is the same amendment that was defeated during the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on SB 1102.

    Initially, Senator Cheuvront’s amendment was defeated by voice vote during the debate on SB 1102. However, parliamentary procedures allowed him to reintroduce his amendment during the process of “closing” the COW calendar containing SB 1102 and a number of other bills. At that point, Senator Cheuvront asked for a recorded vote. As expected, all 12 Democrats in the Senate voted for the Cheuvront amendment. Of the 18 Republicans, Senator Jonathan Paton was not present for the vote, and the following 3 Republicans “crossed the aisle” to limit your freedoms, voting to PASS the Cheuvront amendment by a 15-14 vote.

    Senator Carolyn S. Allen
    Senator Steve Pierce
    Senator Jay Tibshraeny

    If any one of this “turncoat trio” had voted against the Cheuvront amendment, it would have failed by 14-15. Joining in the vote of their fellow Democrats to damage your rights were two Democrats who have received favorable NRA ratings because of their prior support of pro-rights firearms legislation:

    Senator “Manny” Alvarez
    Senator Rebecca Rios

    It is imperative that we let these 5 senators know, in no uncertain terms, what a grave mistake they have made. We strongly encourage everyone receiving this Alert to go to our Action Center and send the letter that is waiting there. We urge you to express your feelings and feel free to modify the language we have provided.

    This is NOT the end of our attempt to get Constitutional Carry passed this session.

    There are several opportunities that we can take advantage of. However, at this point SB 1102 will not be calendared for a Senate Third Read (final vote before being sent to the House) until we have determined the optimum strategy.

    Bottom-line: We will not sacrifice your right to privately sell firearms in order to achieve Constitutional Carry!

  2. #2
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sierra Vista, AZ
    Posts
    265

    Post imported post

    Emails sent. Thank you for all your work Fred.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

  3. #3
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    662

    Post imported post

    Im pissed. These people will not be getting my vote. And I was looking forward to carrying without a CCW. Shame on them.

  4. #4
    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    673

    Post imported post

    I'm really pissed. Steve Pierce is my Senator. He's always portraid himself as 'pro-2A', and has been generally good on 2A .



    He'll be hearing from me, and loosing my vote most likely.

    Fred, any chance of the senate bill being killed and the house bill contiueing on, to correct this abomination?

  5. #5
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    AZkopper wrote:
    I'm really pissed. Steve Pierce is my Senator. He's always portraid himself as 'pro-2A', and has been generally good on 2A .

    He'll be hearing from me, and loosing my vote most likely.

    Fred, any chance of the senate bill being killed and the house bill contiueing on, to correct this abomination?
    Pierce was heavily supported by Buzz Mills who owns Gunsite. He also had heavy NRA suport and pretended to be pro-gun. Rumor has itthat the NRA now has him in their cross-hairs.

    The fat lady hasn't sung yet on Constiutional Carry. SB 1102 will not be seen again as long as that amendment is there. The House bill is still alive and there are some other vehicles that can be used. What makes or breaks Constitutional Carry is whether gun owners want to get involvedor sit around and whine.

    Like Edmund Burke said, "All it take for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

    Fred


  6. #6
    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    blowing dust, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    206

    Post imported post

    this bill has been dead in the water sence february 8th or so when amendments were adopted in committees...:X

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    274

    Post imported post

    e-mail sent. Thank you Fred.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    274

    Post imported post

    I just received this response from Senator Steve Pierce:

    In Arizona, if you have a company with employees, the owner of the company is responsible by law to prove all employees are US citizens. If you go to register to vote you have to prove your citizenship. Why wouldn't you want to prove you are a US citizen to buy a gun? We need to keep guns out of the hands of illegal aliens any way possible. Doesn't the NRA and the Arizona Citizens Defense League want to make sure illegal aliens cannot buy guns in Arizona? I am not trying to impede any law abiding citizens of this country from buying or selling guns - but I am concerned about the number of illegal alien criminals in Arizona who have unfettered access to purchase guns. I called you about this when that officer was killed in Gilbert. Look at the record of crimes in the State, you know it. Aren't these same groups going to help with this? If they are opposed to this amendment how would you help solve this issue and stop these criminals from getting guns? If I have to do the policing for the State for my employees citizenship, why wouldn't the NRA ask the same from Gun shows? Law enforcement people tell me Senate Bill 1102 is bad and that there is nothing major wrong with Arizona's current CCW laws. Perhaps there are some fixes for the current law like not requiring a retired Cop to renew his CCW, or to pay for his CCW, when his duty training probably far exceeds any training CCW classes offer, and maybe more fixes. They also say that they like to have people licensed and go thru the proper training and checks to obtain the permits. Why would the NRA or the AzCDL take a position opposing these law enforcement people that we need to support? I am a rancher. I am a very conservative republican and I probably have more guns and use them more frequently than most. I believe in the Second amendment and it's and insult for anyone to suggest otherwise. The statement emailed to members by the Arizona Citizens Defense League was not an honest review of what happened. Instead it was a slap at me for making a serious problem come to light. No rights have been taken from anyone. If this bill fails nothing changes. Everything remains as it is currently. No rights are taken from anyone. In fact, those that wrote the mass email and sent it out have never been to my office or asked to discuss the issue and yet they call me a "turncoat". I'm sorry but I am here to do a job, not keep it. I have a right to disagree and to vote as I see without being chastised by fellow senators and I am not intimidated by mass emails from anyone. Senator Steve Pierce Majority Whip Arizona Legislative District 1 602-926-5584

  9. #9
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    I just received this response from Senator Steve Pierce:
    Thanks for sharing! He was furious at the Capitol today

    Let me see if I get this right. We don't want cops to ask for proof of citizenship during a traffic stop, but if you try and sell your gun while walknig around a gun show, if you don't verify citizenship you commit a class 4 felony and will spend many years bitnig your pillow in some prison. There's a big difference between commerical gun sales which already have access to NICS and a casual sale.

    The purpose of the Cheuvront amendment is not to stop illegal aliens, it's purpose is to pave the way for shutting down gun shows. All we need is for this law to pass and a couple of stings set up to bust a couple of good ol boys selling their rusty rifles and then the gun show promoters will find they can't get insurance and must ban private sales and then maybe the state or city where the show is held will say they don't need the hassle and maybe it's better just not to have any more gun shows.

    Geesh!
    Fred

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    274

    Post imported post

    Just received this response from Senator Jay Tibshraeny

    Dear Shane, Thanks for your email, however, the AzCDL has misinformed you. In Arizona, if you have a company with employees, the owner of the company is responsible by law to prove all employees are US citizens. If you go to register to vote you have to prove your citizenship. The amendment you referred to on SB1102 would prevent illegal aliens from purchasing a gun by providing proof of citizenship. We need to keep guns out of the hands of illegal aliens! The bills sponsor, Senator Russell Pearce, even acknowledged that this amendment was a worthy goal. Keeping guns out of the hands of illegal aliens is not something I take lightly. I have an excellent rating on second amendment rights through the years. Don't let the AzCDL confuse the issue of illegal immigration with 2nd Amendment rights. Thank you for your interest in the Legislative process and please do not hesitate to contact me with any additional comments or questions you may have in the future. Senator Jay Tibshraeny Arizona State Senate 1700 West Washington Phoenix, Arizona 85007 (602) 926-4481

  11. #11
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    Just received this response from Senator Jay Tibshraeny
    Yeah, we're starting to see a lot of those. Looks similar to Pierce's. Apparantly all it takes to stop gun running to Mexico is to arrest citizens for not checking citizenship during a casual sale. Here's another tidbit - you don't need to be born here to get an Arizona's driver's license. How many are epxerts in detecting fraudlent passports and birth certificates? Willing to go to jail for it? That's the purpose - to stop private gun sales, and eventually all gun shows.

    Fred

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Laveen, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    432

    Post imported post

    Why don't we suggest that the Police set up in front of the entrance gate to the gun show and verify that all that enter are legal residents, all the rest can then be escorted back to Mexico, then you can be assured that any sales inside the show would be to legals. I bet sheriff Joe would be happy to do that.

  13. #13
    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Happy Jack, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    443

    Post imported post

    If they are concerned about Illegal INVADERS they need to address that issue. The INVADERS can be deported if the powers that be really want to do the job.

    If our LEOs have such great training why do they spray so many bullets around when the need for a gun occurs? That is a BS item also.


    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

  14. #14
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elgin, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,202

    Post imported post

    In Arizona, if you have a company with employees, the owner of the company is responsible by law to prove all employees are US citizens. If you go to register to vote you have to prove your citizenship. Why wouldn't you want to prove you are a US citizen to buy a gun?
    Uh, because it is not a requirement. Legal residents are allowed to buy firearms too!

    A residency requirement is already the law.




  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    , Illinois, USA
    Posts
    85

    Post imported post

    So is Constitutional Carry all but dead this session? If it is, its very hard to swallow do to all the "pro" 2A support in the House and Senate right now.

    Is there a reasonable chance that the bill can be reintroduced/changed in the Senate or have the House pass their own version and get it threw the Senate? If not, it looks like WY is going to beat you guys to the punch.

    Good luck guys!

  16. #16
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Johnyt101 wrote:
    So is Constitutional Carry all but dead this session? If it is, its very hard to swallow do to all the "pro" 2A support in the House and Senate right now.
    Is there a reasonable chance that the bill can be reintroduced/changed in the Senate or have the House pass their own version and get it threw the Senate? If not, it looks like WY is going to beat you guys to the punch. Good luck guys!
    We plan ahead

    SB 1102 has a twin in the House (HB 2347) that is still in play. We also have the possibility to resurrect the language in SB 1102, minus the Cheuvront amendment, as an amemdment to another Senate bill, so the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

    We do have a new challenge however. Senator Pierce, who voted for the Cheuvront amendment in order to kill SB 1102, is in a leadership position in the Senate and may use his power to thwartANY pro-gun bills in realiation forhaving hisanti-rights beliefs exposed. Until a couple of days ago, he had everyone believing he was pro-RKBA.

  17. #17
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    958

    Post imported post

    Notso wrote:
    Why don't we suggest that the Police set up in front of the entrance gate to the gun show and verify that all that enter are legal residents, all the rest can then be escorted back to Mexico, then you can be assured that any sales inside the show would be to legals. I bet sheriff Joe would be happy to do that.
    WHAT -- :shock: And violate the "rights" of Illegals to enter a gun show where they're not permitted by law to purchase a weapon?

    /sarcasm.

  18. #18
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Notso wrote:
    Why don't we suggest that the Police set up in front of the entrance gate to the gun show and verify that all that enter are legal residents, all the rest can then be escorted back to Mexico, then you can be assured that any sales inside the show would be to legals. I bet sheriff Joe would be happy to do that.
    If they did that, then they wouldn't be able to arrest eeeevilll gun owners conducting private sales inside the show.

  19. #19
    Regular Member me812's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    federally occupied Arizona
    Posts
    216

    Post imported post

    Pierce was heavily supported by Buzz Mills who owns Gunsite.

    That's really not surprising. I bet gunsite and other CCW training places give beaucoup bucks to re-election campaigns and they want constitutional carry killed, for rather obvious reasons.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    274

    Post imported post

    Good point

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    274

    Post imported post

    Based on the e-mail just received from AZCDL...looks like we are back in play! Although I am a bit confused by the flip flop'n, I am happy people are seeing the light.

  22. #22
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    Based on the e-mail just received from AZCDL...looks like we are back in play! Although I am a bit confused by the flip flop'n, I am happy people are seeing the light.
    I'll repost the AzCDL alert here in a few minutes. What puts the bill back in play is all the sausage making stuff that thepurists disdain. After 5 years at this, we know how to play their game and we're damn good at it

    Fred

  23. #23
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    958

    Post imported post

    azcdlfred wrote:
    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    Based on the e-mail just received from AZCDL...looks like we are back in play!* Although I am a bit confused by the flip flop'n, I am happy people are seeing the light.
    I'll repost the AzCDL alert here in a few minutes.* What puts the bill back in play is all the sausage making stuff that the*purists disdain.* After 5 years at this, we know how to play their game and we're damn good at it

    Fred
    ......And that's just one reason why you guys get my money in both annual dues and OC dinner donations.:celebrate

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •