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Thread: New OCer living on the border

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    I've been considering carrying a handgun 24/7 lately, and I've settled on OCing because of this website. My big worry is crossing the state line into Indiana. I live in Dowagiac, MI but work in Indiana, and all my shopping and leisure time is spent in Indiana.

    My plan is to get a CPL but OCing with it. How will this apply when I am traveling to Indiana? Will I need to get an Indiana LTCH? Is it even legal for me to cross into IN while carrying?

    Thanks

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:35 PM.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    You cannot carry period in IN without a CPL. They require a licence to carry to even transport a pistol other than to the range and home or from the gun store to home.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    @T Vance: Thanks for the gracious welcome. My question relates specifically to open carrying over the state line into Indiana. The website you provided is a concealed carry-specific site, so it is of little help.

    The core of my questions is this: Is it legal to open carry across a state line?

    I suppose we can add to that this: Does having a Michigan CPL permit me to open carry in Indiana?

    I can provide this much of Indiana Law:

    IC 35-47-2-21
    Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states

    35-47-2-21 Sec. 21.
    (a) Retail dealers' licenses issued by other states or foreign countries will not be recognized in Indiana except for sales at wholesale.

    (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.
    Given that a Michigan CPL is a "Concealed Pistol License", and that out-of-state CPLs are "recognized according to the terms thereof", it is easy to assume that my Michigan CPL will only allow me to CC in Indiana.

    As far as carrying over the line is concerned, I don't think any Federal laws prevent it. My personal knowledge is that Federal law actually protects your right to carry over state lines, but I thought I'd ask for an opinion on that from you folks as well.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    NOPE you can CC or OC in Indiana on a MI CPL. You have to understand something... When in Indiana you must follow their laws regarding carry not MI laws. IE their Pistol free zones and so on. As they only have a licence to carry and do not allow unlicensed OC they see the MI CPL as a licence to carry period when in Indiana.

    It relates to driving in this way... when you are in Indiana what traffic laws do you obey? MI or IN?
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    horneraa wrote:
    Given that a Michigan CPL is a "Concealed Pistol License", and that out-of-state CPLs are "recognized according to the terms thereof", it is easy to assume that my Michigan CPL will only allow me to CC in Indiana.

    As far as carrying over the line is concerned, I don't think any Federal laws prevent it. My personal knowledge is that Federal law actually protects your right to carry over state lines, but I thought I'd ask for an opinion on that from you folks as well.
    A reply to Venator from ISP


    Indiana honors all other states handgun license while visiting or passing through our state. Our law does not state that your weapon has to be concealed or unconcealed. Being concealeddoes not draw attention to you or make people feel uneasy. You may check this web site for more information. http://www.in.gov/isp and go under firearms to see what it has. Also, this web site: http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/cod...r47/index.html
    If you have any other questions, please let us know.


    Thanks,
    Sandy Stark Indiana State Police Firearms Section Indiana Government Center North 100 N Senate Ave
    Indianapolis, IN 46204 317-232-8264


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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:35 PM.

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    T Vance wrote:
    When a gun is in a vehicle, on your person, it IS considered concealed.




    :celebrate
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:35 PM.

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    The image didn't want to cooperate, but I fixed it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    T Vance wrote:
    What?
    http://opencarry.org/nm.html

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    horneraa, I live in Edwardsburg and always OC or CC in Indiana all the time with no problems at all. The main key to your deal is to get your CPL, then you may do as the law allows. Just don't have your weapon in the car when your are in IN. It just isn't worth a freak 'pull over' and get popped for CCW untill you get your permit. Later, Bob
    Life Member: NRA (Benefactor), GOA, SAF, MUCC, and Case Collectors Club
    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor, NRA Certified Range Safety Officer

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    bobn911 wrote:
    horneraa, I live in Edwardsburg and always OC or CC in Indiana all the time with no problems at all. The main key to your deal is to get your CPL, then you may do as the law allows. Just don't have your weapon in the car when your are in IN. It just isn't worth a freak 'pull over' and get popped for CCW untill you get your permit. Later, Bob
    Thanks bobn911. As I recall, you can't carry in your car in MI without a CPL anyway, right?

    Thanks to everybody else, too!

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    Whenever i go to south bend/mishawaka (living in niles) I see an Open Carrier. Most i've talked to tell me they had no idea of OCDO or anything similar, and just OC because it's more comfortable.


    With a CPL OC/CC is legal in Indiana, and if i ventured a guess, slightly more accepted.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:35 PM.

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    T Vance wrote:
    horneraa wrote:
    Thanks bobn911. As I recall, you can't carry in your car in MI without a CPL anyway, right?

    Thanks to everybody else, too!

    This is why I suggest making sure you know ALL the guns laws that pertain to carrying in Michigan.


    Here is a quick reference to some rules you need to know.

    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_mi.htm
    I don't understand why you posted this. Was I wrong? Or do you just have an aversion to people asking questions when they should be trusting sketchy websites for their information?

    I intend no offense, but linking me to informational websites just makes me want to cancel my account here and never post again. When I decided I wanted to carry a deadly weapon on my person, I took the consideration seriously and I researched the topic heavily. I can probably quote MCL 28.425o and 750.234d almost word for word. I don't know it that well, but I have read and know how to find IC 35-47-2-(1-25). I've read so many websites, I know the arguments for OC and CC thoroughly. Hell, I even volunteered with a political organization to make CC legal on college campuses*. When bobn911 tells me something like this:
    Just don't have your weapon in the car when your are in IN. It just isn't worth a freak 'pull over' and get popped for CCW untill you get your permit.
    It stops me and makes me think, Wait, is he suggesting that in Michigan you won't get "popped" for CCW? That doesn't sound right.... So I want to clarify.

    If you ask me to be completely honest, I'll tell you I think I am very well informed. What I don't have is experience. That's why I come here. You guys can answer questions when the law is ambiguous, or when Google can't get the information for me. How was I to know that Indiana makes no distinction between OC and CC? (thanks to SpringerXDacp for that one) That certainly wasn't stated on any of the websites I visited. Even so, I didn't know how it applied to a MI CPL until you folks said so. That's the real reason I created an account. I've got the opportunity to be a part of a community that collectively knows more than I ever can. Again, I mean no offense, but if you're just gonna link me here and there, I have no purpose for coming back. I'll just spend more time on Google.

    *Look me up: http://concealedcampus.org/stateinfo...;name=Michigan My name is Aaron, I'm Campus Leader for Southwestern Michigan College. Send me an e-mail if you don't believe me.

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    [.
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:33 PM.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Part of the rules on OCDO are that we provide a CITE of where we got the information. That is what the links are for.

    Remember most of us are not attorneys and you still need to verify what we tell you yourself.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    horneraa wrote:
    I've got the opportunity to be a part of a community that collectively knows more than I ever can. Again, I mean no offense, but if you're just gonna link me here and there, I have no purpose for coming back. I'll just spend more time on Google. " If you ask me to be completely honest, I'll tell you I think I am very well informed. What I don't have is experience. That's why *Look me up: http://concealedcampus.org/stateinfo...;name=Michigan My name is Aaron, I'm Campus Leader for Southwestern Michigan College. Send me an e-mail if you don't believe me."
    A major part of the reason our collective knowledge is what it is, is the links we provide. Don't take it offensively, it's part of the M.O. here, and works very well.

    Welcome to OCDO.
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    Sorry, you're new here. I don't know how much you know about firearm laws. I was just making sure you did. If you don't want my help, that's fine.

    If you have questions about Indiana's gun laws, maybe you should ask the people in the Indiana section of this forum. Good luck.
    Yet again, I meant no offense. I appreciate your help, but I was attempting to give you a newbie perspective on your own habits and the merits of this site as a whole.

    Part of the rules on OCDO are that we provide a CITE of where we got the information. That is what the links are for.

    Remember most of us are not attorneys and you still need to verify what we tell you yourself.
    Completely agree. However, giving me a link and telling me to go find information is different from telling me information and citing your sources.

    Thank you for the warm welcome Taurus850CIA.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    T Vance wrote:
    horneraa wrote:
    Sorry, you're new here. I don't know how much you know about firearm laws. I was just making sure you did. If you don't want my help, that's fine.

    If you have questions about Indiana's gun laws, maybe you should ask the people in the Indiana section of this forum. Good luck.
    Yet again, I meant no offense. I appreciate your help, but I was attempting to give you a newbie perspective on your own habits and the merits of this site as a whole.
    Well try here. They will have answers to your questions I'm sure. It's a link to the Indiana forums.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum22/
    Thank you, but I was hoping for the Michigander's perspective on carrying with a Michigan CPL across the border into Indiana. I'm not entirely sure that will work out there, but if you think I should, I will.

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    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:32 PM.

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    horneraa wrote: IANAL, however, IMO, the "...Terms Thereof"means thatplaces off-limits in Michigan for CPL holdersto carry a concealed pistol alsoare off-limits for Michigan CPL holders to carryconcealed pistols in Indiana. There has been much debate on this issue and I've been told in the past that my opinion on this is wrong.

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