Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: I am helpng a friend in VA or WV

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    A friend of mine has a 9mm pistol and needs to shoot 100 rounds througha stack of like 8 golf shirts and needs to recover bullets and fragments for a study. She asked me for help. What is the best way to capture the 100 rounds? Shoot into the ground (frozen around here), water barrel, jugs, phone books and newspaper (both wet and dry).. I have heard it all.. What have you heard and better yet, what have you DONE that works?

    Thanks!



    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Virginia Beach, ,
    Posts
    204

    Post imported post

    I would do it the same way as the guy on the Box O'Truth website. Line up 5 or 6 milk jugs filled with water and hang the clothing in front of it.

    R/ DocV


    Edit to add: http://www.theboxotruth.com/

  3. #3
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    DocV wrote:
    Line up 5 or 6 milk jugs filled with water and hang the clothing in front of it.

    What a smart, smart man!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    DocV wrote:
    I would do it the same way as the guy on the Box O'Truth website. Line up 5 or 6 milk jugs filled with water and hang the clothing in front of it.

    R/ DocV


    Edit to add: http://www.theboxotruth.com/
    That's going to take a lot of milk jugs for 100 rounds.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    314

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    A friend of mine has a 9mm pistol and needs to shoot 100 rounds througha stack of like 8 golf shirts and needs to recover bullets and fragments for a study. She asked me for help. What is the best way to capture the 100 rounds? Shoot into the ground (frozen around here), water barrel, jugs, phone books and newspaper (both wet and dry).. I have heard it all.. What have you heard and better yet, what have you DONE that works?

    Thanks!



    Ed

    We use the local Yellow Book *you can get them free at Kroger* for .22 rounds but they go almost all the way through, save for about 200 or so pages. She could try it, but it did catch and save the bullets. And since they are free and you can get several rounds into each one, especially if she spaces them right and pulls them out between shots.


  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    Couldn't she get/make some ballistics gel and set the shirts on top of the gel?

    http://www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    Mount the shirts in a REALLY big embroidery hoop, then mount that hoop on the top of a 55 gallon drum filled with water. Stand on a platform high enough so you can comfortably shoot straight down into the barrel. That should easily and safely capture the bullets, AND not deform them very much (well, a LOT less than phone books or the ground)

    Plus, a 55gal drum is a LOT more "re-usable" than milk jugs...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjJWJ...PL&index=6

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972OWQFimGw
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  8. #8
    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ruther Glen Va
    Posts
    508

    Post imported post

    What about a block of ice? it may take a few though, it shouldn't melt that quick in these temps.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    Dreamer wrote:
    Mount the shirts in a REALLY big embroidery hoop, then mount that hoop on the top of a 55 gallon drum filled with water. Stand on a platform high enough so you can comfortably shoot straight down into the barrel. That should easily and safely capture the bullets, AND not deform them very much (well, a LOT less than phone books or the ground)

    Plus, a 55gal drum is a LOT more "re-usable" than milk jugs...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjJWJ...&index=6So
    So far, this looks like the best
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    Just make sure she gives the YouTube poster (and me for pointing you toward it) a little credit line somewhere in her report...

    Good luck with this experiment. Sounds REALLY interesting. Let us know how it goes, and please, if she published it in PDF format anywhere, give us the link.

    Inquiring minds want to know...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  11. #11
    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ruther Glen Va
    Posts
    508

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    Dreamer wrote:
    Mount the shirts in a REALLY big embroidery hoop, then mount that hoop on the top of a 55 gallon drum filled with water. Stand on a platform high enough so you can comfortably shoot straight down into the barrel. That should easily and safely capture the bullets, AND not deform them very much (well, a LOT less than phone books or the ground)

    Plus, a 55gal drum is a LOT more "re-usable" than milk jugs...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjJWJ...&index=6So
    So far, this looks liek the best
    I may be able to hook you up with a 55 gal drum, you would just have to cut the top out.

  12. #12
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,121

    Post imported post

    Ballistic gel won't deform the bullet, the ice will shatter and cause fragmentation of the bullet, a 9mm bullet will loose most of its momentum in 16-18 inches of water ( a 55 gal drum isn't strictly necessary) and about 9 inches of phone book are required. What material you use depends on what you are studying the bullet for. If you are attempting to demonstrate the shirts on a human body then usually a pig carcass is sufficient to stop the slug and mimic the response.

    If it is only to demonstrate what happens to the golf shirts or the bullet or a combination then you need to tailor your information and method to represent what your study is attempting.


    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    nuc65 wrote:
    Ballistic gel won't deform the bullet, the ice will shatter and cause fragmentation of the bullet, a 9mm bullet will loose most of its momentum in 16-18 inches of water ( a 55 gal drum isn't strictly necessary)
    If I use a 35 gallon "plastic" trash can will the shock wave blow out the sides?


    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    Actually, in the first video I posted--the one with the Winchester 9mm PDX-1 rounds, it looks like he is using that EXACT plastic trash can. The second video--the one with the .45acp Hydra-Shoks, a different guy used a metal 55gal barrel...

    So a plastic garbage can should work, if its a BIG one. And shooting through 8 layers of denim is going to slow down a 9mm round a bit before it ever hits the water, so you should be golden with a 50gal trash can, but a 35 gallon plastic can might not be deep enough.

    The only way to know is to try. At the very worst, you're going to shoot a few holes in the bottom of a 35gal trash can.

    I'd go with the bigger can though. The cost difference should be negligible, and we've seen it work on video...

    As always, I'll say IANAL, but I'll also add the following caveat:
    IANAP (I Am Not A Physicist...)
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358

    Post imported post

    One more idea...

    If your friend is doing this experiment as some sort of officially sanctioned academic research, she might have her school contact the FBI lab in Quantico VA. They have a state-of-the -art ballistics lab, and they have some of the most current models of "bullet traps."

    FBI-Quantico has research partnerships with many of the NoVA area universities (like GMU), so if she's doing this experiment for research in, say, GMU's Criminal Justice Program, she can probably get authorisation to go to Quantico and watch them do it for her. (they probably WON'T let her actually fire the rounds though...)

    Just a thought...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    Dreamer wrote:
    One more idea...

    If your friend is doing this experiment as some sort of officially sanctioned academic research, she might have her school contact the FBI lab in Quantico VA. They have a state-of-the -art ballistics lab, and they have some of the most current models of "bullet traps."

    FBI-Quantico has research partnerships with many of the NoVA area universities (like GMU), so if she's doing this experiment for research in, say, GMU's Criminal Justice Program, she can probably get authorisation to go to Quantico and watch them do it for her. (they probably WON'T let her actually fire the rounds though...)

    Just a thought...
    Thanks.. time was of the essence.. she needs the rounds this weekend and I took too long.. but I think she is going to use the trash can idea with her dad in WV this weekend. Thanks all for your help, I will let ya know how it worked out.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    Yeah, ok, too late - but I was thinking, it sort of depends on what condition she wants the bullets to be in after going through the shirts. Water jugs, phone books, and trash cans will cause deformation. I was thinking, if she's in W.Va., bales of hay would be best. When she's done, just burn the hay and sift the ashes. Though now that I think of it, depending on what kind of bullets she's using, that fire might be hot enough to melt the lead.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  18. #18
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,121

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    nuc65 wrote:
    Ballistic gel won't deform the bullet, the ice will shatter and cause fragmentation of the bullet, a 9mm bullet will loose most of its momentum in 16-18 inches of water ( a 55 gal drum isn't strictly necessary)
    If I use a 35 gallon "plastic" trash can will the shock wave blow out the sides?

    If you maintain aim at the center and the trash can you picture is 3/4 full then I doubt it will create much of a pressure wave. It might splash some and I would add a few inches of sand at the bottom.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  19. #19
    Lone Star Veteran Hokie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Reston, VA, , USA
    Posts
    162

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    nuc65 wrote:
    Ballistic gel won't deform the bullet, the ice will shatter and cause fragmentation of the bullet, a 9mm bullet will loose most of its momentum in 16-18 inches of water ( a 55 gal drum isn't strictly necessary)
    If I use a 35 gallon "plastic" trash can will the shock wave blow out the sides?

    There is a youtube video of a guy using a plastic trash can with mud at the bottem and then water to show that the Glock can be fired underwater. The trash can did not suffer any visible damage

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS057lKUtCs
    "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'"- Phelps Adams

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    It goes without saying that you should not try this at home, and you take this advice at your own risk, YMMV, IANAL ... and any other disclaimer that may be appropriate.

    Go to Walmart or a similar discount store. Find some "Bath sheets" which are basically large bath towels for 100 9mm bullet recoveries you will need about 5.

    Open the towel, lay it flat and roll it into a round "tube" shape. Take the weapon and the towel to a large flat unobstructed surface. Lay the towel tube on the ground in a straight line and fold the far end over to close the end. Be sure there is at least 25 or 30 feet of unobstructed space for the towel to move when you shoot. Put the muzzle of the weapon into the end of the towel tube and go "Bang".

    The towel will move (usually about 20 feet).

    Unroll the towel and you will find a pristine bullet in the center about half way down the length of the roll. You can reuse the towel for a number of shots but it will eventually require replacement.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

  21. #21
    Regular Member KaosDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    74

    Post imported post

    The only thing missing from the first video was; "Here, hold ma'beer!"
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." B. Franklin

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,848

    Post imported post

    Hawkflyer wrote:
    It goes without saying that you should not try this at home, and you take this advice at your own risk, YMMV, IANAL ... and any other disclaimer that may be appropriate.

    Go to Walmart or a similar discount store. Find some "Bath sheets" which are basically large bath towels for 100 9mm bullet recoveries you will need about 5.

    Open the towel, lay it flat and roll it into a round "tube" shape. Take the weapon and the towel to a large flat unobstructed surface. Lay the towel tube on the ground in a straight line and fold the far end over to close the end. Be sure there is at least 25 or 30 feet of unobstructed space for the towel to move when you shoot. Put the muzzle of the weapon into the end of the towel tube and go "Bang".

    The towel will move (usually about 20 feet).

    Unroll the towel and you will find a pristine bullet in the center about half way down the length of the roll. You can reuse the towel for a number of shots but it will eventually require replacement.
    YouTube THAT
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  23. #23
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    nuc65 wrote:
    Ballistic gel won't deform the bullet, the ice will shatter and cause fragmentation of the bullet, a 9mm bullet will loose most of its momentum in 16-18 inches of water ( a 55 gal drum isn't strictly necessary)
    If I use a 35 gallon "plastic" trash can will the shock wave blow out the sides?

    Ed, I tested some hollowpoints using a tall 7 gallon bucket filled with water shot from my keltec p3at .380. Two things. I had a steel plate in the bottom incase the water column was not enough to stop the bullet. It wasn't and flatened the bullet but after it nicely expanded. I would suggest something similar for you otherwise you may shoot a hole in the bottom of your trash can. The can should be able to handle the shock wave. Be aware though the splash back was rather impressive even for a .380 :^). Got me all wet and I was six feet above the bucket.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    Hokie wrote:
    ed wrote:
    nuc65 wrote:
    Ballistic gel won't deform the bullet, the ice will shatter and cause fragmentation of the bullet, a 9mm bullet will loose most of its momentum in 16-18 inches of water ( a 55 gal drum isn't strictly necessary)
    If I use a 35 gallon "plastic" trash can will the shock wave blow out the sides?

    There is a youtube video of a guy using a plastic trash can with mud at the bottem and then water to show that the Glock can be fired underwater. The trash can did not suffer any visible damage

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS057lKUtCs
    Here's a nice little write up about shooting a glock underwater. It starts a bit down the page. One good point they make is to use subsonic cartridges!

    http://www.topglock.com/content.aspx?ckey=glockfaqs


  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,315

    Post imported post

    ed wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    It goes without saying that you should not try this at home, and you take this advice at your own risk, YMMV, IANAL ... and any other disclaimer that may be appropriate.

    Go to Walmart or a similar discount store. Find some "Bath sheets" which are basically large bath towels for 100 9mm bullet recoveries you will need about 5.

    Open the towel, lay it flat and roll it into a round "tube" shape. Take the weapon and the towel to a large flat unobstructed surface. Lay the towel tube on the ground in a straight line and fold the far end over to close the end. Be sure there is at least 25 or 30 feet of unobstructed space for the towel to move when you shoot. Put the muzzle of the weapon into the end of the towel tube and go "Bang".

    The towel will move (usually about 20 feet).

    Unroll the towel and you will find a pristine bullet in the center about half way down the length of the roll. You can reuse the towel for a number of shots but it will eventually require replacement.
    YouTube THAT
    Not everyone uses youtube.

    Try it. It works very well. It helps if the flat surface is smooth and you roll the towel along the long axis. The important thing is to make the "tube" fairly tight but not impassable, allow the towel to move freely, and shoot down the center parallel to the ground.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •