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Thread: OT: Car Prowl, Frustration.

  1. #1
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    I was the victim of a car prowl last night. Had valuables taken out of my car. (Yes I know they shouldnt have been in there, but it was only for a short period). I talked to the security and they got the guy on tape, they got the license plate, a good picture.. etc.. I know that these items get sold very quickly. My local PD is "assigning the case to a detective" among other things.

    I just feel like there shouldn't be much detecting going on. I've rounded up the tapes, I got the pictures of them, got a license plate. It seems simple enough -- search warrant and felony arrest due to amount of stuff that was taken.

    Just frustrating and I'm kinda venting.

    What would you have done if you saw someone breaking into your car?

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    Unless I know it would constitute a felony, like vehicle theft, I would have called 911 and told them that there was a car prowl in progress, you may just be surprised at the level of attention it gets.

    Firearms are best served for protection of health or to prevent a high level felony. I personally don't think my stuff is worth a life, even if it is the other guys.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Need the right kind of burglar alarm:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ncK0PZwT8

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    No here is the perfect alarm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geynA...5C&index=3

    It is so hard to say what one would or would not do, as other have said depending on the crime being committed to many other as factors as size, strength, location, time of day which you can determine yourself.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    I confront anyone who looks as if they are breaking into a car, or even contemplating it. I have been the victim before of a car break-in, and I don't wish it on anyone.

    Its not hard to tell, and its worked quite a few times to send someone on their way with a description of the prowler to the police afterward. The police may not catch them from your report, but it will help if they catch them later in the same area doing the same thing.

    A few pointers:
    Approach calmly
    Keep hands empty and available
    Speak loudly, but not screaming
    Ask questions, don't make accusations
    Keep your distance, but don't "hide"
    Have cover in mind
    And for God sakes, have your recorder running!

    Excuse me! Are you stealing that car?!
    Are you AAA or something?!
    Where is the owner if your the locksmith?!
    Are you really, or are you trying to break into that car?!

    By now, you will have a good sense if its the owner or a prowler, and as a general rule, locksmiths don't work without the owner being present. They also don't use coat hangers or other ad-hoc tools.

    A few signs of guilt to look for:
    Are they constantly glancing around?
    Are they alone with no one with them that looks like the owner?
    Are they using a slim jim or ad-hoc tools?
    Do they ignore your questions but start working faster?
    Do they try to hide what they are doing?
    Do they tell you to %*&@ off or threaten you while keeping their voice low.
    Are they taking longer than a minute or so to get the door open? (amateur)

    You don't have to be confrontational, while confronting. Leave the bad decisions to the criminal and only pull a weapon if they decide they would rather attack you than leave.

    I won't use physical force to protect a car, only myself, but that doesn't mean I have to leave either. I keep talking to them and take pictures with my cell phone if they insist on breaking into the vehicle. If it really is the owner, and I read them wrong, then whats the harm?

    If they ARE the owner, they will get the keys that they left in the car, and then drive off, or, in the ONE case I was mistaken, he waved them at me once he got them out, and I appologized. He actually thanked me for what I was trying to do afterward and said it took guts.

    He wasn't kidding.
    My adrenalin surged for at-least half an hour after.


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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    I've confronted more than one of them in my day, most of them when I lived in apartments in Lakewood.....I never had to draw, and in fact, I usually wasn't armed (before 21). When confronted, most will retreat quickly. Sorry to hear you got broken into, it's never a good feeling to have your personal space violated like that.

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    Man stabbed during car robbery North Seattle by KOMO Staff
    Originally printed at http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84831197.html
    SEATTLE -- A man in his 40s was stabbed after he found two men breaking into his car in the city's Maple Leaf neighborhood.
    Police said the car owner caught the two men breaking into his Infiniti Coupe near 16th Ave. NE and NE 77th St. at approximately 7:45 p.m. When the thieves saw they'd been caught red-handed, they attacked and stabbed the man, detectives said.
    The two men fled the scene in a Ford Explorer described as gray, light blue or green. Both men are said to have long hair.
    The victim sustained at least two stab wounds to his lower torso. He was rushed to Harborview Medical Center with life-threatening injuries.
    Anyone with information on the case is urged to call police immediately.

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    swatspyder wrote:
    Man stabbed during car robbery North Seattle by KOMO Staff
    Originally printed at http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84831197.html
    SEATTLE -- A man in his 40s was stabbed after he found two men breaking into his car in the city's Maple Leaf neighborhood.
    Police said the car owner caught the two men breaking into his Infiniti Coupe near 16th Ave. NE and NE 77th St. at approximately 7:45 p.m. When the thieves saw they'd been caught red-handed, they attacked and stabbed the man, detectives said.
    The two men fled the scene in a Ford Explorer described as gray, light blue or green. Both men are said to have long hair.
    The victim sustained at least two stab wounds to his lower torso. He was rushed to Harborview Medical Center with life-threatening injuries.
    Anyone with information on the case is urged to call police immediately.
    And here's how the news article should read in a less imperfect world:

    SEATTLE - Two men breaking into John Doe's Infiniti Coupe near 16th Ave. NE and NE 77th street were startled when the owner caught them breaking in. In an attempt to escape they threatened the owner of the vehicle with a knife. It was the last mistake either would make, as the owner a licensed CPL holder (or open-carry advocate) drew his firearm and shot both of his armed assailants, who were pronounced dead when EMT's arrived. Mr Doe suffered no injuries due to his quick thinking. "I just reacted" he said, "I was afraid they were going to kill me and reflexes took over." The open carry of a firearm is legal in Washington state and the concealed carry of a firearm requires a permit, which is required by law to be issued as long as the applicant has a non-violent record and meets some basic legal criteria.

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    What would you have done if you saw someone breaking into your car?
    I had a similar incident on Christmas, and what I ended up doing was basically running out with a flashlight and an anti-theft device. While tactically this was probably a bad idea, no one got my stuff...

    There was a bit of debate here about the legal ramifications of displaying a firearm when someone is prowling your car, I believed and still believe that since you have the right to use "reasonable force" to investigate someone on your property and you could believe in good faith that someone breaking in your car is potentially dangerous to you, it would not be wrong to display a firearm to deter/detain a carprowler. Standby for BigDave disagreeing.

    If you're life may actually be at risk, you have to weigh whether or not it's worth it to confront them, but for me and I imagine other people it was somewhat of an instinctual thing to confront them.

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    In Spokane We had a guy hold a Burglar at gun point until the policed arrived about six months ago. He noticed that his neighbor left his garage door open and this certain vehicle kept driving back and forth in front of this house. When he saw the vehicle back into the driveway and start loading stuff up, he went over and confronted them. I'm sure some people will say this sounds bad, but the home owner was happy and the police didn't even harass him for using his firearm(as far as I know). At least that's what I got from Foxs News

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    cynicist wrote:
    What would you have done if you saw someone breaking into your car?
    I had a similar incident on Christmas, and what I ended up doing was basically running out with a flashlight and an anti-theft device. While tactically this was probably a bad idea, no one got my stuff...

    There was a bit of debate here about the legal ramifications of displaying a firearm when someone is prowling your car, I believed and still believe that since you have the right to use "reasonable force" to investigate someone on your property and you could believe in good faith that someone breaking in your car is potentially dangerous to you, it would not be wrong to display a firearm to deter/detain a carprowler. Standby for BigDave disagreeing.

    If you're life may actually be at risk, you have to weigh whether or not it's worth it to confront them, but for me and I imagine other people it was somewhat of an instinctual thing to confront them.
    The disagreement I have with your incident or any other has to do with when one employs a deadly weapon, you seen to have a propensity to want to find a situation to use the firearm.

    Your firearm is the last tool you use to solve any physical force encounter, will sometimes you will have to go directly to the firearm, yes but not all.

    In your encounter you described there was no threat to life and limb to have a firearm in your hand being displayed in threatening manner, holstered or even with your hand on it when it could not be seen would be appropriate from a defensive position confronting the perp.

    Running out there like an idiot with gun in hand is dangerous to you and others as well.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Had I caught these guys red-handed I would have drawn without thinking twice. If an officer came up on the same scenario they would have their guns drawn as well.

    The case still hasn't been assigned. I'm tempted to have a private investigator run the plate and mail them a letter or something explaining that I know who they are and they can make this go away by returning my property. My laptop isn't very sellable. It has a bios password AND a vista password.

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    Kildars wrote:
    It has a bios password AND a vista password.
    Unfortunately, both are pretty easy to get around. Most motherboards have a jumper setting to clear bios passwords and and hard drives can be formatted.

    But I would agree about hiring a PI if you have the money.
    DISCLAIMER: This post may contain libertarian ideas and language that are consistent with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, including a belief in liberty, rule of law, and natural rights. It may also contain opinions critical of government and the tyrannies being committed by such. If you are an authoritarian, statist, or other freedom hater, side effects of reading this post may include high blood pressure, loose stool, severe genital itching, and diarrhea of the mouth.

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    Personally, I like the car alarm that warns the intruder and then fires a blast of flames like a blowtorch at them!

    Hard to miss a flaming car prowler running down the street screaming!

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    If only mantraps weren't illegal. Sigh.

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    kenshin wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    It has a bios password AND a vista password.
    Unfortunately, both are pretty easy to get around. Most motherboards have a jumper setting to clear bios passwords and and hard drives can be formatted.
    Given that you're in front of the machine, there's no need to format to work around a Windows password. A quick boot off of a thumb-drive based utility OS will let you right at the Security hive.

    In any computer situation, passwords are only worthwhile if you either a) don't have direct access to the hardware, or b) don't have an open-ended timeline.

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    midiwall wrote:
    kenshin wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    It has a bios password AND a vista password.
    Unfortunately, both are pretty easy to get around. Most motherboards have a jumper setting to clear bios passwords and and hard drives can be formatted.
    Given that you're in front of the machine, there's no need to format to work around a Windows password. A quick boot off of a thumb-drive based utility OS will let you right at the Security hive.

    In any computer situation, passwords are only worthwhile if you either a) don't have direct access to the hardware, or b) don't have an open-ended timeline.
    I had changed my boot order to hard drive, not USB/CD to prevent that. I highly doubt that someone who stole my laptop has the intelligence to open up a computer and reset my CMOS battery to clear the bios password.


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    Kildars wrote:
    midiwall wrote:
    Given that you're in front of the machine, there's no need to format to work around a Windows password. A quick boot off of a thumb-drive based utility OS will let you right at the Security hive.

    In any computer situation, passwords are only worthwhile if you either a) don't have direct access to the hardware, or b) don't have an open-ended timeline.
    I had changed my boot order to hard drive, not USB/CD to prevent that. I highly doubt that someone who stole my laptop has the intelligence to open up a computer and reset my CMOS battery to clear the bios password.
    Doesn't matter - there's an at-boot keypress you can do to override the boot order. Doesn't really matter if the thief's smart or not, either, as the information's all on google :?

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    antispam540 wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    midiwall wrote:
    Given that you're in front of the machine, there's no need to format to work around a Windows password. A quick boot off of a thumb-drive based utility OS will let you right at the Security hive.

    In any computer situation, passwords are only worthwhile if you either a) don't have direct access to the hardware, or b) don't have an open-ended timeline.
    I had changed my boot order to hard drive, not USB/CD to prevent that. I highly doubt that someone who stole my laptop has the intelligence to open up a computer and reset my CMOS battery to clear the bios password.
    Doesn't matter - there's an at-boot keypress you can do to override the boot order. Doesn't really matter if the thief's smart or not, either, as the information's all on google :?
    I thought about that as well, but you need the BIOS password to get that far.

  20. #20
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    midiwall wrote:
    antispam540 wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    midiwall wrote:
    Given that you're in front of the machine, there's no need to format to work around a Windows password. A quick boot off of a thumb-drive based utility OS will let you right at the Security hive.

    In any computer situation, passwords are only worthwhile if you either a) don't have direct access to the hardware, or b) don't have an open-ended timeline.
    I had changed my boot order to hard drive, not USB/CD to prevent that. I highly doubt that someone who stole my laptop has the intelligence to open up a computer and reset my CMOS battery to clear the bios password.
    Doesn't matter - there's an at-boot keypress you can do to override the boot order. Doesn't really matter if the thief's smart or not, either, as the information's all on google :?
    I thought about that as well, but you need the BIOS password to get that far.
    Use a different computer!:shock: to access the internet and do the search in google then go back to the stolen or recovered computer and work the magic.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Kildars wrote:
    bios password AND a vista password.
    CMOS is an easy clear but that virus is a mofo.

    Diskpart format reinstall, doo dah! Doo dah!♫ :shock:

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    Kildars wrote:
    I was the victim of a car prowl last night. Had valuables taken out of my car. (Yes I know they shouldnt have been in there, but it was only for a short period). I talked to the security and they got the guy on tape, they got the license plate, a good picture.. etc.. I know that these items get sold very quickly. My local PD is "assigning the case to a detective" among other things.

    ....

    Just frustrating and I'm kinda venting.

    What would you have done if you saw someone breaking into your car?
    Kildars wrote:
    Had I caught these guys red-handed I would have drawn without thinking twice. If an officer came up on the same scenario they would have their guns drawn as well.
    Whatever you would have done, I would hope that you would have kept in mind one of the most famous and powerful ideas to have ever come from the gun owner/2A activist communities, HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© :

    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

    Failure to follow the wisdom and guidanceimplicit inHPCSD© results in trauma, regret and various legal, moral and psychic costs.

    HPCSD© always applies, BTW. There is no way around it.

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    thanks hankt for getting this train back on track! all this crap about rebooting a stolen lap top was pissin me off!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    HankT,

    Regarding your "postulate", it only takes a single counterexample to disprove a categorical statement.... So ....

    Go away, and this time this time please stay gone.

  25. #25
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Whatever you would have done, I would hope that you would have kept in mind one of the most famous and powerful ideas to have ever come from the gun owner/2A activist communities, HankT's Postulate of Civilian Self-Defense© :

    It is a bad strategy to shoot an unarmed person.

    Failure to follow the wisdom and guidanceimplicit inHPCSD© results in trauma, regret and various legal, moral and psychic costs.

    HPCSD© always applies, BTW. There is no way around it.
    Personally, I like 'FMCDH's Logic of Better Self-Defense' much more.

    It is always a worse strategy to allow someone to beat and or stab you to death.

    FLBSD always applies more than any other "Postulate". Period.

    Just sayin...

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