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Thread: Demand Virginia State Forest bureaucrats restore your right to open carry!

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    Looks like we crashed their system. Hopefully they will get it back up soon.

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    VCDL President wrote:
    Looks like we crashed their system.Â* Hopefully they will get it back up soon.
    Bah. Humbug.

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    Regular Member apollosmom's Avatar
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    Phil,

    You said it yourself the other night in Yorktown. All you have to say is hit this poll...resulting electrons from throughout Virginia unleash the power of free citizens!

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    apollosmom wrote:
    Phil,

    You said it yourself the other night in Yorktown. All you have to say is hit this poll...resulting electrons from throughout Virginia unleash the power of free citizens!
    It is truly a jaw-dropping experience, even after all these years.


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    VCDL President wrote:
    Looks like we crashed their system. Hopefully they will get it back up soon.
    Starting to look like they don't work weekends...

    TFred

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    TFred wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Looks like we crashed their system. Hopefully they will get it back up soon.
    Starting to look like they don't work weekends...

    TFred
    Part of the government isn't working on weekends? :shock: How will we survive until Monday without them?!?

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    Still down:
    Failed to connect to ServletExec.Group = default
    Address = 127.0.0.1:9999
    The error number is 10061


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    Regular_Joe wrote:
    Still down:
    Failed to connect to ServletExec.Group = default
    Address = 127.0.0.1:9999
    The error number is 10061
    Not Monday yet.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    The server is back up and got my comments.

    Hopefully with these rule changes and tomorrows national parks change, what are the places that we can't OC?

    What about Yorktown battlefields and other historic sites? I assume that we can't OC in any building but outside should be ok right? I get confused of all the different management of each site. Whether it is a state forest/park, national forest park historic area, dept of fish & wildlife or whatever else there is.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    45acpForMe wrote:
    The server is back up and got my comments.

    Hopefully with these rule changes and tomorrows national parks change, what are the places that we can't OC?

    What about Yorktown battlefields and other historic sites? I assume that we can't OC in any building but outside should be ok right? I get confused of all the different management of each site. Whether it is a state forest/park, national forest park historic area, dept of fish & wildlife or whatever else there is.
    That is why we would like a level playing field with all state agencies.

    Right now is not unlike the various municipalities were before preemption.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    I haven't been following this. I assume right now that one must conceal with CHP in state forests, and this proposed change would make carry legal in state forests the same it is elsewhere in the state (i.e. concealed with permit or open with or without permit).

    If that's correct, would this also mean that national forests would be changed as well?
    (Guns) are already a daily occurrence in campsites on United StatesNational ForestServiceland, which has never had a restriction on carrying guns.

    Reported by Ed stone at Examiner.com
    Atlanta Gun Rights Examiner, Ed Stone

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    nova wrote:
    I haven't been following this. I assume right now that one must conceal with CHP in state forests, and this proposed change would make carry legal in state forests the same it is elsewhere in the state (i.e. concealed with permit or open with or without permit).

    If that's correct, would this also mean that national forests would be changed as well?
    Um no, state forest bans conceal carry right now and this change would allow concealed carry - hence the effort to comment on the proposed rule to alow allow open carry.

    Natonal forests are governed by the Dept. of cons. gunban that limits carry their and in state parks to conceal carry except where hunting is allowed

    National parks re not covered by weither of these 2 state regulations so today you can open or conceal carry in national parks in Virginia.



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    Mike wrote:
    nova wrote:
    I haven't been following this. I assume right now that one must conceal with CHP in state forests, and this proposed change would make carry legal in state forests the same it is elsewhere in the state (i.e. concealed with permit or open with or without permit).

    If that's correct, would this also mean that national forests would be changed as well?
    Um no, state forest bans conceal carry right now and this change would allow concealed carry - hence the effort to comment on the proposed rule to alow allow open carry.

    Natona forests are governed by the Dept. of cons. gunban that limits carry to conceal carry except where hunting is allowed

    National parks re not covered by weither of these 2 state regulations so today you can open or conceal carry in national parks in Virginia.

    Thanks for setting me straight.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I took a look through the "regulatory documents" associated with this proposed rule change. They have absolutely no intention at all of including open carry.

    I suspect this is going to take more than one step.

    TFred

    ETA: I don't mean to poo-poo the current effort... just wanted to point out we're asking them for something they aren't even thinking about offering at this point.

    Here is the actual proposed text of the rule change.

    italics = deleted text
    underlined = added text

    4VAC10-30-170. Explosives, fires firearms, etc.

    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance, except commercial sporting firearms ammunition; explosives, explosive substances and firearms of all types are prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area. This regulation shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state forests by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.


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    TFred wrote:
    I took a look through the "regulatory documents" associated with this proposed rule change. They have absolutely no intention at all of including open carry.

    I suspect this is going to take more than one step.

    TFred

    ETA: I don't mean to poo-poo the current effort... just wanted to point out we're asking them for something they aren't even thinking about offering at this point.

    Here is the actual proposed text of the rule change.

    italics = deleted text
    underlined = added text

    4VAC10-30-170. Explosives, fires firearms, etc.

    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance, except commercial sporting firearms ammunition; explosives, explosive substances and firearms of all types are prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area. This regulation shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state forests by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
    It was in the original petition as I recall.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    I took a look through the "regulatory documents" associated with this proposed rule change. They have absolutely no intention at all of including open carry.

    I suspect this is going to take more than one step.

    TFred

    ETA: I don't mean to poo-poo the current effort... just wanted to point out we're asking them for something they aren't even thinking about offering at this point.

    Here is the actual proposed text of the rule change.

    italics = deleted text
    underlined = added text

    4VAC10-30-170. Explosives, fires firearms, etc.

    No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or explosive substance, except commercial sporting firearms ammunition; explosives, explosive substances and firearms of all types are prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of Forestry, for administration as a recreational area. This regulation shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state forests by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
    It was in the original petition as I recall.
    I don't suppose it is an accident that they have scaled down the applicability of the change from (7.8 million minus prohibited person) Virginians, to (~214,000 plus out of state) permit holding Virginians.

    One step at a time.

    TFred


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    It is the intention to put as much pressure to bear as possible to bring these agencies in line with the opinion of the former Attorney General and now Governor on our RKBA in accordance with state laws on these public lands.

    Need a ride? Can you spare a seat brother? Will you be able to spend a few hours away?

    Post it here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/38794.html

    We NEED your physical support on this one - let your voice be heard.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    Now all the comments are filling up with people from the NRA who only say they support the legislation. The NRA email that I got said nothing about open carry.

    Listen to one of the posts:

    The intent of this law was to prevent reckless weapon use on state forest for protection of its inhabitants and patrons. Law abiding conceal carry owners are charged with not using or showing their weapon unless the situation warrants for fear of life and self defense. This change in the code would have no impact to the public at all. I can walk into Wal-Mart with my conceal carry but not have it in the back woods of a state forest where some crazy might be lurking for an easy opportunity. It doesn't make sense to me. You could add wording for those state forest parcels with an office on site for CC owners to stop by and register as having a CC on site so they are aware, but don't prevent them from having it.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    vt357 wrote:
    Now all the comments are filling up with people from the NRA who only say they support the legislation. The NRA email that I got said nothing about open carry.

    Listen to one of the posts:

    The intent of this law was to prevent reckless weapon use on state forest for protection of its inhabitants and patrons. Law abiding conceal carry owners are charged with not using or showing their weapon unless the situation warrants for fear of life and self defense. This change in the code would have no impact to the public at all. I can walk into Wal-Mart with my conceal carry but not have it in the back woods of a state forest where some crazy might be lurking for an easy opportunity. It doesn't make sense to me. You could add wording for those state forest parcels with an office on site for CC owners to stop by and register as having a CC on site so they are aware, but don't prevent them from having it.
    Register? WTF is he thinking!!

    The camel's nose I understand, but that is the opposite end of the beast.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    vt357 wrote:
    Now all the comments are filling up with people from the NRA who only say they support the legislation. The NRA email that I got said nothing about open carry.

    Listen to one of the posts:

    The intent of this law was to prevent reckless weapon use on state forest for protection of its inhabitants and patrons. Law abiding conceal carry owners are charged with not using or showing their weapon unless the situation warrants for fear of life and self defense. This change in the code would have no impact to the public at all. I can walk into Wal-Mart with my conceal carry but not have it in the back woods of a state forest where some crazy might be lurking for an easy opportunity. It doesn't make sense to me. You could add wording for those state forest parcels with an office on site for CC owners to stop by and register as having a CC on site so they are aware, but don't prevent them from having it.
    Register? WTF is he thinking!!

    The camel's nose I understand, but that is the opposite end of the beast.

    Yata hey
    I saw that NRA alert go out and knew it would be trouble. Oh, well - we need to out number them so we can get unlicensed open carry, too.


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    VCDL President wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    vt357 wrote:
    Now all the comments are filling up with people from the NRA who only say they support the legislation. The NRA email that I got said nothing about open carry.

    Listen to one of the posts:

    The intent of this law was to prevent reckless weapon use on state forest for protection of its inhabitants and patrons. Law abiding conceal carry owners are charged with not using or showing their weapon unless the situation warrants for fear of life and self defense. This change in the code would have no impact to the public at all. I can walk into Wal-Mart with my conceal carry but not have it in the back woods of a state forest where some crazy might be lurking for an easy opportunity. It doesn't make sense to me. You could add wording for those state forest parcels with an office on site for CC owners to stop by and register as having a CC on site so they are aware, but don't prevent them from having it.
    Register? WTF is he thinking!!

    The camel's nose I understand, but that is the opposite end of the beast.

    Yata hey
    I saw that NRA alert go out and knew it would be trouble. Oh, well - we need to out number them so we can get unlicensed open carry, too.
    I guess that answers all the questions about why I'm NOT an NRA member and in fact, have my card next to Sarah Bradys picture for dart practice.
    They don't represent me and haven't for a very long time.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I figure they read the first few comments and the last, so I held my comment until today.


    I support the rule change but as written, is not in compliance with Virginia law. Open Carry is a Right in Virginia, Concealed is a privilege.

    "A person’s right to carry a firearm openly is considered universal within the Commonwealth, "
    AG's Opinion by Bob McDonnell.

    Change the rule to allow BOTH OPEN and concealed!

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    This rule change, if passed would only modify state forest regs but not that of state parks?

    It's pretty disappointing to discover new places I want to go, only to find out I am not welcome.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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