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Thread: OC an AR-15 in National Parks

  1. #1
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    This picture is from the link that Mike posted about the AOL poll. The picture is of people looking over into the Grand Canyon. If you visit this location you can OC as far as I know but the question is can you OC an AR-15 or should you OC and AR-15 even if it is perfectly legal.How about one that is classified as a handgun. Even if is it legal you are going to get some stares and comments so is it a good idea and will you be doing it?





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    Well how many people in the past 50 years have casually strolled up the edge of the Grand Canyon, 100 other visitors around, with an AR-15? Probably not a single case. Very funny to think about though.. Anyway if it's legal I wouldn't sweat it- as long as you keep your wits about.

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    I thought NP carry had to be concealed handguns. I could be wrong and haven't paid much attention to it.

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    You are not wrong: it is CC only.

    What is weird, is that the law banning CC in parks was signed by Reagan and then overridden by Obama.

    kwikrnu wrote:
    I thought NP carry had to be concealed handguns. I could be wrong and haven't paid much attention to it.

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    Pace wrote:
    You are not wrong: it is CC only.

    What is weird, is that the law banning CC in parks was signed by Reagan and then overridden by Obama.

    kwikrnu wrote:
    I thought NP carry had to be concealed handguns. I could be wrong and haven't paid much attention to it.
    Wrong.
    The new ruling applies state law to the National Parks as far as firearms carry is concerned.
    If the state allows open carry then open carry is allowed in the park. If concealed carry is allowed with a permit then the same applies in the park.

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    flintlock tom wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    You are not wrong: it is CC only.

    What is weird, is that the law banning CC in parks was signed by Reagan and then overridden by Obama.

    kwikrnu wrote:
    I thought NP carry had to be concealed handguns. I could be wrong and haven't paid much attention to it.
    Wrong.
    The new ruling applies state law to the National Parks as far as firearms carry is concerned.
    If the state allows open carry then open carry is allowed in the park. If concealed carry is allowed with a permit then the same applies in the park.
    +1, I pointed out that in another thread else where, there is nothing explicitly prohibiting or even regulating the open carry on the federal level, it defers to state.

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    Then someone needs to inform the media and even some of the firearms press.

    You are right, I just visited the National Parks office, my apologies. Sorry for speaking out my ...

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    Why not? Should you abstain from exercising your right because doing so might offend precisely those who would gladly limit that right?

    Of course, you don't want to act like a jerk and try to stir up trouble and antagonize. So, when OCing you should conduct yourself in a professional manner so as not to feed the fire of those who would prefer to see guns only in the hands of police. If OCing an AR-15, this might mean being extra polite to people who ask questions and having well thought out responses to the likely questions you'll receive. Remember to keep a cool head if people try to provoke you.

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    VA Lawyer wrote:
    Why not? Should you abstain from exercising your right because doing so might offend precisely those who would gladly limit that right?

    Of course, you don't want to act like a jerk and try to stir up trouble and antagonize. So, when OCing you should conduct yourself in a professional manner so as not to feed the fire of those who would prefer to see guns only in the hands of police. If OCing an AR-15, this might mean being extra polite to people who ask questions and having well thought out responses to the likely questions you'll receive. Remember to keep a cool head if people try to provoke you.
    Yes, I agree. I like this well thought out response.....

    Sir, Why are you carrying that Machine gun ?! ( well thought out response >> ) Because It's perfectly legal & I so chose to

    Any other questions ?
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Personally, I am very, very careful how I act, for a variety of reasons. Besides being an established business person, writer, involved in chaplaincy, I feel that I should always act in an appropriate manner. When I carry a firearm, even mroe so.

    But I 100% support anyone's right to be a jerk, and carry.


    VA Lawyer wrote:
    Why not? Should you abstain from exercising your right because doing so might offend precisely those who would gladly limit that right?

    Of course, you don't want to act like a jerk and try to stir up trouble and antagonize. So, when OCing you should conduct yourself in a professional manner so as not to feed the fire of those who would prefer to see guns only in the hands of police. If OCing an AR-15, this might mean being extra polite to people who ask questions and having well thought out responses to the likely questions you'll receive. Remember to keep a cool head if people try to provoke you.

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    I have every intention of open-carrying in National Parks here in WA. What about National Recreation Areas though? Are those already ok to carry like National Forests are?

    As for the open-carry of a rifle in a National Park, depending on the Park, why not? I can make a very good case for it in the Olympics or in the North Cascades here in WA (Both NP's) as my M1A is a darned bit more effective at stopping a foul-tempered black bear or cougar than my .45 ACP would be.

    When the threats are 4-legged and not 2-legged a rifle or a shotgun (slugs) may be a much better option.

    Open-carry of my M1A in a place like the Appomattox Court House might not be the most fitting place to OC a rifle... (or maybe it is... heheh) This also assumes that National Historic Parks fall under the National Parks rule and I'm not so sure that they do.

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    shad0wfax wrote:
    I have every intention of open-carrying in National Parks here in WA. What about National Recreation Areas though? Are those already ok to carry like National Forests are?

    As for the open-carry of a rifle in a National Park, depending on the Park, why not? I can make a very good case for it in the Olympics or in the North Cascades here in WA (Both NP's) as my M1A is a darned bit more effective at stopping a foul-tempered black bear or cougar than my .45 ACP would be.

    When the threats are 4-legged and not 2-legged a rifle or a shotgun (slugs) may be a much better option.

    Open-carry of my M1A in a place like the Appomattox Court House might not be the most fitting place to OC a rifle... (or maybe it is... heheh) This also assumes that National Historic Parks fall under the National Parks rule and I'm not so sure that they do.
    M1A I just bought a National Match.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Regular Member shad0wfax's Avatar
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    Glock34 wrote:
    M1A I just bought a National Match.
    Cool! OC of a National Match in a National Park.

    Mine's a black LPO (Liberal-Pisser-Offer) with a 16" barrel. I think it will really torque some of the left-coasters off when I OC it in the Olympic National Park next time I'm over that way.

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    shad0wfax wrote:
    Glock34 wrote:
    M1A I just bought a National Match.
    Cool! OC of a National Match in a National Park.

    Mine's a black LPO (Liberal-Pisser-Offer) with a 16" barrel. I think it will really torque some of the left-coasters off when I OC it in the Olympic National Park next time I'm over that way.
    ah, the SOCOM. nice choice.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    IMO wrong forum for long gun OC advocation.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    IMO wrong forum for long gun OC advocation.

    Yata hey
    pistol / rifle > both guns.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Glock34 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    IMO wrong forum for long gun OC advocation.

    Yata hey
    pistol / rifle > both guns.
    OpenCarry.org

    A pro-gun Internet community focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Under the first amendment you certainly have the right to walk into Walmart, stand behind a mother and her 2 young children in the check out line and say, "Bleepin, g**d*** bleepin, mother bleepin line, bleepin mother bleepin cashier at bleepin Walmart buncha bleepin bleepers" but most people in polite society would think you are a crude jerk for doing so.

    In a similar vein, walking up to the scene as depicted in the OP with an AR15 slung over your shoulder is similar in that sure, you may have a right to do it, but it is needlessly provocative and even people who are knowledgeable of and supportive of your 2A rights are probably going to think you are an attention seeking jerk. Having a handgun on your hip that is part of your normal carry along with your pocket knife, wallet, cell phone, etc walking up on that situation is (should be) just normal with a regular Joe carrying personal/family protection as he does every day, just like LEO and others carry in our society with the acceptance of the population.

    To me that is quite different from say carrying a slung AR-10 at a back country trail head as you are heading out on an overnight hike into an area with large predators.

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    That is why I posted the picture of the scene I was talking about. I think deepdiver is right on with his comparison but I have this thought. With all the press covering the change would they look at whoever is carrying and think "He is legally carrying and whoever made that law is crazy". To shock the public with an AR could do more harm than good. Now having a rifle at a trailhead would probabaly be more likely to bring out PETA than the antis but at an overlook is a little different in most minds. Maybe the publicity surrounding the change is good as it does inform some people that OC is legal.

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    I have seen a comparison before that applies this discussion, perhaps in these forums. Generally speaking, handguns are defensive tools and rifles are offensive tools.

    For the most part, the people of this forum are not trying to be offensive.

    my 2c






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    The great thing about the publicity would be if -- nothing happened. Just a few people who were going to some National Parks anyway carried their sidearms like they always do and nobody noticed or got excited. No rallies, no photographic poses just to display sidearms, nobody walking around with long guns in a place that a sidearm is sufficient and appropriate for self-defense, "no nothin'" that any anti or NP Ranger can point to and say, "See, these people are crazy." Just another day with everyone living their lives as they usually do just being able to extend that normal carrying behavior to their national park visit. Sometimes the best thing to do when you win is nothing special.

    Can you see the national news if nothing particular happened? "In other news, the national park ban on legal firearm carry expired today and for more on that story we go to Bob. Bob, what's happening over there at _____ National Park today?"

    "Um, Linda, nothing happened. A few families were here with pistols on their hips and when asked about the change in the law simply said, "This is family time and I would rather spend time with my family than answering your questions, have a good day." Numerous anti-gun statements were issued by blah blah blah but from my vantage point this is apparently just a non-issue."
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Pace wrote:
    Then someone needs to inform the media and even some of the firearms press.

    You are right, I just visited the National Parks office, my apologies. Sorry for speaking out my ...
    Oh, the media know darn good'n well that it isn't just concealed that's allowed. The Washington Post has been harping since this began that "the new law will allow people with concealed carry permits to carry concealed weapons..." etc. Why? Two reasons come to mind off the bat.

    (1) the anti media want to discourage OC insofar as possible, and make most people think you need "a permit for that gun".

    (2) the anti media want to plant paranoia in everyone's mind that they have something to fear now that they cannot tell if someone else is armed.

    Of course they want to drum up the usual bargeload of dumbass assumptions about how Old Faithful will erupt in blood from all thegore soaking into the ground from the gun slayings sure to ensue. Okay, they don't get that overheated. But they get close enough.

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    You know there is more of a danger that the entire YellowStone park will explode in a massive volcano eruption in the next 100 years than anything else? (Not joking, google it)

    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    Then someone needs to inform the media and even some of the firearms press.

    You are right, I just visited the National Parks office, my apologies. Sorry for speaking out my ...
    Oh, the media know darn good'n well that it isn't just concealed that's allowed. The Washington Post has been harping since this began that "the new law will allow people with concealed carry permits to carry concealed weapons..." etc. Why? Two reasons come to mind off the bat.

    (1) the anti media want to discourage OC insofar as possible, and make most people think you need "a permit for that gun".

    (2) the anti media want to plant paranoia in everyone's mind that they have something to fear now that they cannot tell if someone else is armed.

    Of course they want to drum up the usual bargeload of dumbass assumptions about how Old Faithful will erupt in blood from all thegore soaking into the ground from the gun slayings sure to ensue. Okay, they don't get that overheated. But they get close enough.

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    Pace wrote:
    You know there is more of a danger that the entire YellowStone park will explode in a massive volcano eruption in the next 100 years than anything else? (Not joking, google it)

    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Pace wrote:
    Then someone needs to inform the media and even some of the firearms press.

    You are right, I just visited the National Parks office, my apologies. Sorry for speaking out my ...
    Oh, the media know darn good'n well that it isn't just concealed that's allowed. The Washington Post has been harping since this began that "the new law will allow people with concealed carry permits to carry concealed weapons..." etc. Why? Two reasons come to mind off the bat.

    (1) the anti media want to discourage OC insofar as possible, and make most people think you need "a permit for that gun".

    (2) the anti media want to plant paranoia in everyone's mind that they have something to fear now that they cannot tell if someone else is armed.

    Of course they want to drum up the usual bargeload of dumbass assumptions about how Old Faithful will erupt in blood from all thegore soaking into the ground from the gun slayings sure to ensue. Okay, they don't get that overheated. But they get close enough.
    The Yellowstone, Caldera = SUPER VOLCANO = Teotwawki ( the end of the world as we know it ) for real.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  25. #25
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    I know this site is about open carrying of a properly holstered and retained sidearm, but I honestly see rifles and handguns as being no different from each other.

    There shouldn't be any discussion on what is or is not reasonable to carry in a National park or anywhere else. If I saw a law abiding citizen carrying a M1A .308 SOCOM, slung around his or her shoulder, I wouldn't care much. I would guage what their intentions were but I do that to everyone I see with a gun including police officers.

    Any dissention on our part with people carrying rifles and any labeling of a weapon being offensive versus defensive will only lead to more erosion of your rights as anti-gun campaigners begin to quote support for "sensible gun laws" even from within the pro-gun community. I think rifles are just as proper as handguns. What makes them offensive or defensive depends on how you intend to use them.

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