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Thread: Official Source for "JRC Rule"

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    I'm trying to find the source for the rule that prohibits carry at the General Assembly building and property without a CHP.

    The rule has been discussed at OCDO, it's listed at VCDL.org, and there are a few "news" reports from when it was enacted. However, all of those only cite, if anything, "JRC Rule." I can not find the actual source of the rule.

    First of all, what is JRC? Is it Judicial Review Committee? Is it Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission? There are seemingly endless possibilities; many things related to Government can be abbreviated JRC.

    Second, where is the rule published?

    Thanks.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    virginiatuck wrote:
    I'm trying to find the source for the rule that prohibits carry at the General Assembly building and property without a CHP.

    The rule has been discussed at OCDO, it's listed at VCDL.org, and there are a few "news" reports from when it was enacted. However, all of those only cite, if anything, "JRC Rule." I can not find the actual source of the rule.

    First of all, what is JRC? Is it Judicial Review Committee? Is it Joint Legislative Audit and Review Commission? There are seemingly endless possibilities; many things related to Government can be abbreviated JRC.

    Second, where is the rule published?

    Thanks.
    I don't have the answer, but I just used the search terms [Virginia "JRC Rule"] in Google, and this thread popped up as the first hit! That's some fast indexing!

    It would seem that Google is listening to us!

    TFred

  3. #3
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Here's the answer:

    http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

    However, I searched through the LIS web site for the 2004 session and could not find anything there about this.

    TFred


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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    Here's the answer:

    http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

    However, I searched through the LIS web site for the 2004 session and could not find anything there about this.

    TFred
    This is a VERY gray area. This was passed by the JRC but never voted on by the full assembly...Is it even legal? Who knows. Is it enforceable? Darned if I know but I don't want to be the one to convince a Judge that the General Assembly Rule is illegal.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    I'm trying to find the source for the rule that prohibits carry at the General Assembly building and property without a CHP.
    I thought a CHP was NOT needed to OC on the GA Grounds (such as at Lobby Day), that a CHP was only needed to OC inside the GA building (as in, where the metal detectors are).

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Here's the answer:

    http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

    However, I searched through the LIS web site for the 2004 session and could not find anything there about this.

    TFred
    This is a VERY gray area. This was passed by the JRC but never voted on by the full assembly...Is it even legal? Who knows. Is it enforceable? Darned if I know but I don't want to be the one to convince a Judge that the General Assembly Rule is illegal.
    NOT a gray area at all. Va Constitution gives the GA the power to set its own rules. House & Senate establish the rules for their separate rooms and the folks who occupy the respectives sides of the GA. Somewhere in the rule-setting process - forgive me, I cannot find my cheat sheet to give the year - the GA agreed that the House would be responsible for the actual housekeeping activities of the GA Building. When the House wants to create a rule that will also affect the Senators, it goes to the JLC for compromise/concurrance.

    During the (IIRC) 2 sessions prior to 2004 there was concern about folks coming into the building with firearms. House pretty much was against the idea and the Senate not so concerned, then the next year positions switched. (Very condensed explanation of the activity taking place in smoke-filled back rooms)

    As with pretty much everything else the GA tries to do, they did a huge amount of assuming and ended up figuring that folks who had CHPs would only carry concealed so they said you had to have a CHP. As open carry was not specifically prohibited and folks wanted their hired help to know they were packing while visiting to check up on them, folks OCd but brought their CHPs to show they were in compliance with the rule.

    As much as I agree the "reason" for requiring a CHP in order to carry in the GAB is not worth spit in preventing crime or bad behavior, and that requiring a CHP to carry in the GAB is both insulting and infringing on the rights of those who do not have/want a CHP, I urge you all to considerwhat the possibilities might most likely have been until the present GA and administration were in office together. Politicians only know how to fix things by writing more laws or making existing laws more restrictive.

    If anyone wants to address this with their Delegate/Senator, I suggest that the time between sessions is when to do that. The JLC can meet whether the GA is in session or not, and getting them to address the concerns the requirement for a CHP raises is better (IMHO) done when they are not under pressure to deal with the time crush of being in session.

    I'd volunteer to go talk to someone, but Deloris McQuinn & Henry Marsh are not the most supportive folks in this area. Anybody have a more friendly set of elected representatives?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Here's the answer:

    http://www.virginia1774.org/JointRules.pdf

    However, I searched through the LIS web site for the 2004 session and could not find anything there about this.

    TFred
    This is a VERY gray area. This was passed by the JRC but never voted on by the full assembly...Is it even legal? Who knows. Is it enforceable? Darned if I know but I don't want to be the one to convince a Judge that the General Assembly Rule is illegal.
    NOT a gray area at all. Va Constitution gives the GA the power to set its own rules.


    I just re-read the Article IV of the Constitution and didn't see that power explicitly granted. Is it somehow implicitly granted?

    edit: by "that power" I mean that a single committee can enact such rules.

    I'd volunteer to go talk to someone, but Deloris McQuinn & Henry Marsh are not the most supportive folks in this area. Anybody have a more friendly set of elected representatives?


    I've got a 1st year House Delegate in my district who answered 100% Yes to the VCDL survey. I could try him later in the year.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Not implicitly, but very specifically, granted. Remember, Virginia law only lists that which is prohibitted, except for the very rare exceptions where things are specifically required to be done.

    The first power of the GA, as carried over from the House of Burgesses, was to declare who and under what circumstances persons who were not members could enter the houses (not just the meeting chambers, but the offices, dining rooms, and all other areas reserved for the members and their staff)of the GA. Even though they are our public servants we enter their house only at their sufferance. Quite the hold-over from colonial days when the House of Burgesses represented The Crown and not The People.

    Va Constitution, Art. IV, Sect 14, Para #1:


    Section 14. Powers of General Assembly; limitations.

    The authority of the General Assembly shall extend to all subjects of legislation not herein forbidden or restricted; and a specific grant of authority in this Constitution upon a subject shall not work a restriction of its authority upon the same or any other subject. The omission in this Constitution of specific grants of authority heretofore conferred shall not be construed to deprive the General Assembly of such authority, or to indicate a change of policy in reference thereto, unless such purpose plainly appear.
    The "gentlemen" of the GA, from the beginning of the Commonwealth, met together to establish rules of how they would conduct business should the Constitution not specifically address a matter, and of recent history decided that the lesser house would be responsible for the actual housekeeping of the building.

    When it became necessary for the greater and lesser houses to be in accord on matters, the "gentlemen" assigned a committer (now known as the JLC) to hash out the agreement.

    For those not familiar with the operation of legislative bodies, they run very much like the British private clubs that were the source of actual power and maneuver since about the time of the modern British constitution. We here in the USA are at least fortunate that our legislatures do not operate on coalition governments formed by alliances of divers [sic -- go look up the archaic use and meaning of the term as opposed to "diverse"] groups and temporary alliances.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  9. #9
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    My understanding of the Freedom of Information Act is that the General Assembly was supposed to vote on the rule to make it permanent after one year and they never did. But convincing a court that the General Assembly, that makes laws, has an unlawful rule could be fun.

    However, we could pressure the GA to vote on the rule. Previous attempts to vote on similar anti-gun bills banning all carry at the GA have failed by HUGE margins.


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