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Is it always a crime to disobey police officer's order in Michigan?

sasha601

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Feb 13, 2010
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I wonder if a person must follow order from a police officer regardless if order is lawful or not? Am I braking a law (charge would be "disobeying police order", I presume) if I am audio or video recording in a public place, and police officer orders me to stop recording and I refuse? Did I brake Michigan Law and can now be arrested?

I presume, there must be a limit to what order a citizen must obey. What if police orders me to completely undress (including underwear)? Will I be breaking the law if I refuse? This is a ridiculous example, but I wanted to drive the point.

Can anyone site specific laws about legality/illegality of disobeying unlawful police orders?
 

BreakingTheMold

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There is a difference between asking bluntly, and ordering. I'm not sure where the limit is, but they will make you if they can.

If they can search you or your house or car, they will, they won't ask. If they can't legally, they'll be likely to ask you to let them search.

If your unsure, ask them if its an "order" or a "Request". It's better to say no, nothing at all, or i will not resist nor consent to anything.


Check out

http://flexyourrights.org/
 

Taurus850CIA

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The only thing I have found so far is, well, not much. :257.602, and 750.479a.
Both of these laws state basically that a failure to obey an order from a police officer to stop a motor vehicle...yadda yadda...

I wonder if these laws are abused in a similar manner to that of the "brandishing" law in the past?


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(fi...&highlight=police AND code AND of AND conduct


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(fi...l-257-602&query=on&highlight=lawful AND order


I found this only after a brief search. There may or may not be more to it. I strongly doubt that it is legal for an officer to make an order that requires unlawful action on your part. I would imagine that there would be some major consequences to be paid by such an officer.
If you are being detained, your freedom is being interfered with, and you are somewhat subject to the whims of the officer. If you are not being legally detained, you are under no obligation to "obey" an order. This is my understanding, take it as you will.
 

THway

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If you disobey an unlawful police order, all i can say is "...Dont taze me. DONT TAZE ME BRO!"

Make sure if you are going to disobey an unlawful police order, to find a soft spot to fall first before your tazed or beat.
 

sasha601

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I also found this:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5f24fr55hxxj4prkzoo5axbp))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-479

Interesting that it defines "obstruction as": (a) “Obstruct” includes the use or threatened use of physical interference or force or a knowing failure to comply with a lawful command.

So the command by officer must be "lawful". Otherwise citizen has the right not to comply with command. This is my understanding.
 

sasha601

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THway wrote:
If you disobey an unlawful police order, all i can say is "...Dont taze me. DONT TAZE ME BRO!"

Make sure if you are going to disobey an unlawful police order, to find a soft spot to fall first before your tazed or beat.

Sure, I understand. But, this is not a point of my question. I want to understand if I broke Michigan Law by disobeying unlawful order from a police officer?
 

Taurus850CIA

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sasha601 wrote:
I also found this:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5f24fr55hxxj4prkzoo5axbp))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-479

Interesting that it defines "obstruction as": (a) “Obstruct” includes the use or threatened use of physical interference or force or a knowing failure to comply with a lawful command.

So the command by officer must be "lawful". Otherwise citizen has the right not to comply with command. This is my understanding.
yep. i b'leive so
 

THway

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well i know that we have discussed this here before, but one has the right to resist unlawful arrest.

IF you want a straight forward answer, CALL the MSP HQ in Lansing and ask them. Just remember, when they answer, also ask for the MCL that goes with their answers.

Then call the AG, and ask the same questions.
 

jeremiahJohnson

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You can resist an unlawful arrest, so I would imagine you could resist an unlawful order. Proving both can be difficult. I would say that if you have not been stopped lawfully you are ok to not respond to his order.
 

lil_freak_66

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CrossPistols wrote:
You can resist an unlawful arrest, so I would imagine you could resist an unlawful order. Proving both can be difficult. I would say that if you have not been stopped lawfully you are ok to not respond to his order.

just asking this out of boredom and to start a nice POLITE debate amongst ourselves.

if they unlawfully detained you for OC and drew they're weapon,legally would you be able to defend yourself? meaning at least drawing.

then citizens arrest the officer,order him to set down his weapon,have him charged for brandishing? and i think there is a pointing charge too.

remember,not a serious question,just to cause a polite debate with everyone!
 

TheSzerdi

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lil_freak_66 wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
You can resist an unlawful arrest, so I would imagine you could resist an unlawful order. Proving both can be difficult. I would say that if you have not been stopped lawfully you are ok to not respond to his order.

just asking this out of boredom and to start a nice POLITE debate amongst ourselves.

if they unlawfully detained you for OC and drew they're weapon,legally would you be able to defend yourself? meaning at least drawing.

then citizens arrest the officer,order him to set down his weapon,have him charged for brandishing? and i think there is a pointing charge too.

remember,not a serious question,just to cause a polite debate with everyone!
In reality you'd never be able to do it. In the fantastical world of what is actually right you should be able to make a citizen's (felony) arrest of the officer for assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder. Brandishing is not a felony and therefore you cannot make a citizen's arrest.
 

lil_freak_66

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i think its onlya matter of time before somebody somewhere does it,or something similar. a test case ruling in our favor could potentially stop just about all unlawful OC detainments.



say...the guy from tennesse (kwirknu?) with the blaze orange AK pistol that runs around in bdu's seems like the type to do it,i feel he takes what some call "OC extremism" to a whole new level.

he is a nice guy though mostly from what ive read.
 

jeremiahJohnson

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fenton, Michigan, USA
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TheSzerdi wrote:
lil_freak_66 wrote:
CrossPistols wrote:
You can resist an unlawful arrest, so I would imagine you could resist an unlawful order. Proving both can be difficult. I would say that if you have not been stopped lawfully you are ok to not respond to his order.

just asking this out of boredom and to start a nice POLITE debate amongst ourselves.

if they unlawfully detained you for OC and drew they're weapon,legally would you be able to defend yourself? meaning at least drawing.

then citizens arrest the officer,order him to set down his weapon,have him charged for brandishing? and i think there is a pointing charge too.

remember,not a serious question,just to cause a polite debate with everyone!
In reality you'd never be able to do it. In the fantastical world of what is actually right you should be able to make a citizen's (felony) arrest of the officer for assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder. Brandishing is not a felony and therefore you cannot make a citizen's arrest.
the law reads a person may resist an arrest up to, but not including using deadly force. Misdemeanor arrest can be made when summoned by an officer to assist in making an arrest.
 

DJ_Amish

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sasha601 wrote:
If I refused a clearly unlawful order, did I brake the law? This is what I am trying to understand

Well for one you can claim you don't speak English since its BREAK not brake.

But no one ever said anyone from Michigan was as smart as those from Ohio lol :celebrate
 

Hombre

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There's lots of bad/wrong legal advice on this forum and it's sad that some people on here have such an adversarial attitude toward law enforcement. I hope I can dispel some of that. However, there are several on this forum who go out of there way to screw with me, namely this PAT person (look under the Ponderosa thread).

I want to help and will answer questions as honestly as I can, but it's tough to do with a guy like this PAT and a few others.

Also, there are lots of "internet lawyers" on this board. Those guys usually get themselves into lots of legal problems and cost others who follow there advice. I see some good advice on here, but not much......mostly just a bunch of "internet lawyers" who try to get others to screw with the police. The first improper assumption is that there are a bunch of cops out there who want to take away or violate your constitutional rights when the reality is, most people become cops because they are very conservative and cherish those rights. What they don't like is criminals and people who act like assholes toward them. Act like an asshole and you might as well attach a sign on your back to attract police attention. (asserting your rights politely does not equal being an asshole btw).
 

jeremiahJohnson

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Hombre1 wrote:
There's lots of bad/wrong legal advice on this forum and it's sad that some people on here have such an adversarial attitude toward law enforcement:(. I hope I can dispel some of that:). However, there are several on this forum who go out of there way to screw with me:shock:, namely this PAT person (look under the Ponderosa thread).

I want to help and will answer questions as honestly as I can, but it's tough to do with a guy like this PAT and a few others:uhoh:.

Also, there are lots of "internet lawyers" on this board (so it's not Illegal). Those guys usually get themselves into lots of legal problems (It's called the Darwin Theory) and cost others who follow there advice (No one told them to follow). I see some good advice on here, but not much......mostly just a bunch of "internet lawyers" (again it's legal) who try to get others to screw with the police. The first improper assumption (there are proper Assumptions?) is that there are a bunch of cops out there who want to take away or violate your constitutional rights (There are I've seen the Video) when the reality is, most people become cops because they are very conservative and cherish those rights(doubt it). What they don't like is criminals (Good) and people who act like @#$%s toward them (you don't get instant respect from the uniform). Act like an @#$% and you might as well attach a sign on your back to attract police attention. (asserting your rights politely does not equal being an @#$% btw).
 

Hombre

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CrossPistols wrote:
Hombre1 wrote:
There's lots of bad/wrong legal advice on this forum and it's sad that some people on here have such an adversarial attitude toward law enforcement:(. I hope I can dispel some of that:). However, there are several on this forum who go out of there way to screw with me:shock:, namely this PAT person (look under the Ponderosa thread).

I want to help and will answer questions as honestly as I can, but it's tough to do with a guy like this PAT and a few others:uhoh:.

Also, there are lots of "internet lawyers" on this board (so it's not Illegal). Those guys usually get themselves into lots of legal problems (It's called the Darwin Theory) and cost others who follow there advice (No one told them to follow). I see some good advice on here, but not much......mostly just a bunch of "internet lawyers" (again it's legal) who try to get others to screw with the police. The first improper assumption (there are proper Assumptions?) is that there are a bunch of cops out there who want to take away or violate your constitutional rights (There are I've seen the Video) when the reality is, most people become cops because they are very conservative and cherish those rights(doubt it). What they don't like is criminals (Good) and people who act like @#$%s toward them (you don't get instant respect from the uniform). Act like an @#$% and you might as well attach a sign on your back to attract police attention. (asserting your rights politely does not equal being an @#$% btw).
Serious question, here. Are some of you guys "cop wanna-bes"? Because your hostility toward the police makes it seem like the real issue is you want to be a lawman or something. Just curious.
 
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