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Thread: Carrying in Federal Parks

  1. #1
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    FYI...

    Something near and dear to my heart is the ability to protect oneself anywhere necessary. Some of us spend time on the many waterways of this state and a lot of these waterways are in designated federal and state wildlife refuges. Typically, the agency charged with the administration of these refuges and parks presume they have the authority to regulate the citizen with respect to the 2nd amendment. With few challenging this presumption, they get away with doing just that.

    The following is an article reporting on an amendment to the Credit Card Bill which, as of Friday, supposedly relieves the Department of Interior of any perceived power to regulate "arms" within federal parks and refuges. I haven't been able to find the actual text of the amendment to confirm this. Still researching...

    http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2009/05...onal-parks.htm

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    Ok... I found it... Way to go senator Coburn!!!

    As of last Friday it appears that we may OC in any national wildlife refuge or national park in Louisiana in compliance with its laws.

    here's the text copied from http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...pdKPgZ:e48673:

    TEXT OF AMENDMENTS -- (Senate - May 12, 2009)[line] (7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the
    Code:
    [Page: S5384]  GPO's PDF
    Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service. (8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.
    (b) Protecting the Right of Individuals to Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.--The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--
    (1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
    (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.




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    It seems strange to me, but I guess it shouldn't, that carrying in a Louisiana WMA is barred unless you are doing so when a particular season is open, and with a weapon that fits the method of harvest for the particular species that is legally huntable in that WMA at that time. Obviously, then, "carry" is legal only inasmuch as if you are "hunting", and then you'd have to have the many appropriate hunting licenses/permits/stamps and the "WMA Permit"; an FBI fingerprint card; your birth certificate, driver's license, library card, voter registration card, passport; four (4) DNA samples, in the form of an underarm hair (plucked, not shorn!), a buccal swab, a vial of blood, and a microscope slide of the produce of a gut-wrenching finger wave of Dr. Bigfinger; and, finally and most importantly, a signed note from your momma. So, I guess you could pretty much say that any "carry" in a WMA is illegal, whereas certain hunting is allowed at certain times.

    I read somewhere very recently, damned if I can recall where, that weapons "were at one time allowed on WMAs", and the context was regarding boats in waterways of these WMAs. However, it went on to say that "alligators kept turning up dead after weekends of heavy fishing", or some other such crap insinuating that anyone who would carry a weapon in their boat would shoot indiscriminately at anything that moves.

    The way I see it, the only "reason", and not much of one at that, that can be even remotely defended for this carry ban would be in the form of claims to prevent the illegal taking of game. This would be, of course, another example of an attempt to regulate and control lawbreakers through onerous and draconian restrictions on law abiding citizens. I mean, that's akin to saying that people could not stop themselves from killing anything they see, any time they see it, if they have the means available to them to do so.

    We see and hear time after time after time BS regarding OC, such as "such-'n'-such is NOT the place to [OC]", that OCing "near women/children/[insert your favorite demographic profile here] is out of place in "public", and so on, basically inferring that anywhere there's concrete there should be no guns in the hands of John Q. Citizen.

    Having been drawn for the opening weekend of turkey season at Tunica WMA, and never having even been on a WMA before much less hunted on one, I was bouncing around the 'Net reading about WMAs, etc., when I stumbled upon the foregoing referenced commentary. And, it hit me that I couldn't legally scout there prior to the season opening unless I did so unarmed. Makes no sense, but then again, very, VERY few anti-carry law/rules/regs even remotely do, if any. I legally OC in many places that would seem grossly unfit to your typical anti-gun moron, yet I can't legally OC in an absolutely unpopulated area that looks like the backdrop for Deliverance, and that produces canebrake rattlesnakes as long as the coffin they can put you in.

    There should be some provision for at least handgun carry in WMAs. Better would be no bar to any sort of carry, but I'd take the former over nothing, for sure. It seems counterintuitive to me that I can leave the house strapped, drive off, stop at the corner Stop-N-Rob for a Coke and then Wal-Mart for a box of ammo, and upon arriving at my destination in the Tunica hills, I'd have to remove my weapon before walking off into the woods...and that's even if I heard the progressively accelerating twang of Dueling Banjos wafting out of said woods.

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    AmosMoses wrote:
    It seems strange to me, but I guess it shouldn't, that carrying in a Louisiana WMA is barred unless you are doing so when a particular season is open, and with a weapon that fits the method of harvest for the particular species that is legally huntable in that WMA at that time. Obviously, then, "carry" is legal only inasmuch as if you are "hunting", and then you'd have to have the many appropriate hunting licenses/permits/stamps and the "WMA Permit"; an FBI fingerprint card; your birth certificate, driver's license, library card, voter registration card, passport; four (4) DNA samples, in the form of an underarm hair (plucked, not shorn!), a buccal swab, a vial of blood, and a microscope slide of the produce of a gut-wrenching finger wave of Dr. Bigfinger; and, finally and most importantly, a signed note from your momma. So, I guess you could pretty much say that any "carry" in a WMA is illegal, whereas certain hunting is allowed at certain times.

    I read somewhere very recently, damned if I can recall where, that weapons "were at one time allowed on WMAs", and the context was regarding boats in waterways of these WMAs. However, it went on to say that "alligators kept turning up dead after weekends of heavy fishing", or some other such crap insinuating that anyone who would carry a weapon in their boat would shoot indiscriminately at anything that moves.

    The way I see it, the only "reason", and not much of one at that, that can be even remotely defended for this carry ban would be in the form of claims to prevent the illegal taking of game. This would be, of course, another example of an attempt to regulate and control lawbreakers through onerous and draconian restrictions on law abiding citizens. I mean, that's akin to saying that people could not stop themselves from killing anything they see, any time they see it, if they have the means available to them to do so.

    We see and hear time after time after time BS regarding OC, such as "such-'n'-such is NOT the place to [OC]", that OCing "near women/children/[insert your favorite demographic profile here] is out of place in "public", and so on, basically inferring that anywhere there's concrete there should be no guns in the hands of John Q. Citizen.

    Having been drawn for the opening weekend of turkey season at Tunica WMA, and never having even been on a WMA before much less hunted on one, I was bouncing around the 'Net reading about WMAs, etc., when I stumbled upon the foregoing referenced commentary. And, it hit me that I couldn't legally scout there prior to the season opening unless I did so unarmed. Makes no sense, but then again, very, VERY few anti-carry law/rules/regs even remotely do, if any. I legally OC in many places that would seem grossly unfit to your typical anti-gun moron, yet I can't legally OC in an absolutely unpopulated area that looks like the backdrop for Deliverance, and that produces canebrake rattlesnakes as long as the coffin they can put you in.

    There should be some provision for at least handgun carry in WMAs. Better would be no bar to any sort of carry, but I'd take the former over nothing, for sure. It seems counterintuitive to me that I can leave the house strapped, drive off, stop at the corner Stop-N-Rob for a Coke and then Wal-Mart for a box of ammo, and upon arriving at my destination in the Tunica hills, I'd have to remove my weapon before walking off into the woods...and that's even if I heard the progressively accelerating twang of Dueling Banjos wafting out of said woods.
    Ok... you've identified a problem... now what are you going to do about it?

    BTW... the law you speak of is here...
    http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=104858

    Specifically...
    RS 56:109
    C. No person shall knowingly take, attempt to take, disturb, or destroy any wild bird or wild quadruped or the nest, egg, or young thereof on lands set apart as wildlife management areas and wildlife refuges, or have in his possession or keep, while on the lands, any firearm, trap, snare, or other device capable of being used in the taking or disturbance of the birds or quadrupeds on such areas, unless the person previously has been expressly authorized by a permit from the department to do so and only for the purpose and under the conditions specified in the permit.

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    So..It's still illegal to OC in WMAs.. correct?

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    Swampwood wrote:
    So..It's still illegal to OC in WMAs.. correct?
    There are federal WMAs and state WMAs. This thread concerns federal lands as the title expressly indicates. See Public Law 111-24 Section 512.

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    Does that include the lakefront in mandeville, LA.

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    tntorqu wrote:
    Does that include the lakefront in mandeville, LA.
    If you can post a question then you have access to the same internet that I do... how 'bout you do some research, find the answer and then come back and tell us...

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    georg jetson wrote:
    If you can post a question then you have access to the internet that I do... how 'bout you do some research, find the answer and then come back and tell us...
    Well that answered my question. No we can't.

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    tntorqu wrote:
    georg jetson wrote:
    If you can post a question then you have access to the internet that I do... how 'bout you do some research, find the answer and then come back and tell us...
    Well that answered my question. No we can't.
    No... it DIDN'T answer your question... It was a not so subtle hint that you should try answering your own questions FIRST before asking... This will hone your research skills. I realize you're one of our younger OC citizens and that you might be tempted to settle for the easy answer. DON'T!! You will arrive at NO truth that way. Learn to fish for yourself.

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    georg jetson wrote:
    No... it DIDN'T answer your question... It was a not so subtle hint that you should try answering your own questions FIRST before asking... This will hone your research skills. I realize you're one of our younger OC citizens and that you might be tempted to settle for the easy answer. DON'T!! You will arrive at NO truth that way. Learn to fish for yourself.
    I did look it up. We cant carry or have it concealed. For crying out loud we can even have a picnic there.

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    tntorqu wrote:
    georg jetson wrote:
    No... it DIDN'T answer your question... It was a not so subtle hint that you should try answering your own questions FIRST before asking... This will hone your research skills. I realize you're one of our younger OC citizens and that you might be tempted to settle for the easy answer. DON'T!! You will arrive at NO truth that way. Learn to fish for yourself.
    I did look it up. We cant carry or have it concealed. For crying out loud we can even have a picnic there.
    Ok.. post a link to what you found...

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    tntorqu wrote:
    georg jetson wrote:
    No... it DIDN'T answer your question... It was a not so subtle hint that you should try answering your own questions FIRST before asking... This will hone your research skills. I realize you're one of our younger OC citizens and that you might be tempted to settle for the easy answer. DON'T!! You will arrive at NO truth that way. Learn to fish for yourself.
    I did look it up. We cant carry or have it concealed. For crying out loud we can even have a picnic there.
    Do you mean "can't" above? What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms.

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    To clarify - when you talk about WMA you are referring to land operated under the direction of the Dept of Interior via the National Parks Service (NPS) rules.

    Hint: the new law pertaining to this was finally effective February 22, 2010.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    barf wrote:
    Do you mean "can't" above? What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms.
    im human i make mistakes BARF.

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    tntorqu wrote:
    barf wrote:
    Do you mean "can't" above? What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms.
    im human i make mistakes BARF.
    Are you going to answer the rest? - "What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms."

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    there signs that are posted throught out the lakefront. When i go to the lakefront tonight ill take a picture of the sign and post it up on here.

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    tntorqu wrote:
    there signs that are posted throught out the lakefront. When i go to the lakefront tonight ill take a picture of the sign and post it up on here.
    Is the lakefront in Mandeville part of a WMA or just part of a municipality?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
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    tnt - put the picnic issue aside for a moment. What did you see/hear/read that prohibits firearms at the Mandeville lakefront?

    tntorqu wrote:
    georg jetson wrote:
    If you can post a question then you have access to the internet that I do... how 'bout you do some research, find the answer and then come back and tell us...
    Well that answered my question. No we can't.

  20. #20
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    barf wrote:
    tntorqu wrote:
    barf wrote:
    Do you mean "can't" above? What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms.
    im human i make mistakes BARF.
    Are you going to answer the rest? - "What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms."
    Still waiting for your reply to these two questions, tntorqu.

  21. #21
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    barf wrote:
    barf wrote:
    tntorqu wrote:
    barf wrote:
    Do you mean "can't" above? What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms.
    im human i make mistakes BARF.
    Are you going to answer the rest? - "What are you looking at that says you can't have a picnic at the lakefront in Mandeville?

    I just reviewed the code of ordinances for the city of Mandeville and don't see anything prohibiting picnics OR the carrying of firearms."
    Still waiting for your reply to these two questions, tntorqu.
    Bump. Still waiting for tntorqu's reply...

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