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Thread: just drew on a "burglar"

  1. #1
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    so here i was,about a half hour ago actually.sleeping,as i usually to till 10am(it was just after 6)

    so yeah there i was sleeping,and the dog barks and jumps off the bed,waking me up and causing a serious adrenaline rush.

    i hear a noise at the door,it was getting pounded on very hard(it ended up cracking the s**t out of the frame)so i grab my 10/22 and chamber a round.and proceed toward the front door with the rifle shouldered but lowered,once i got to the front door i said dont move or your gonna get shot(at least,something similar,idr exactly).turned out it was my sisters father,he yelled it was him.he doesnt live here,hasnt for years,and is non custodial. and just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand and was just looking for a place to keep warm,i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outside waiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold.

    so yeah,6am,dark,snowy,dark dressed "bad guy" and my rifle.

    i cant get to sleep now....

    Sorry if it sounds bad,it was originally written on little sleep and lots of adrenaline.
    Last edited by lil_freak_66; 09-30-2010 at 01:05 PM. Reason: add in more details and have it make more sense
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    that's why I always tell people to call before they come over.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    so here i was,about a half hour ago actually.sleeping,as i usually to till 10am(it was just after 6)

    so yeah there i was sleeping,and the dog barks and jumps off the bed,waking me up and causing a serious adrenaline rush.

    i hear a noise at the door,so i grab my rifle and chamber a round.and proceed toward the frontdoor with the rifle shouldered,once i got to the front door i said dont move or your gonna get shot.turned out it was my sisters father,he yelled it was him.he doesnt live here and just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand and was just looking for a place to keep warm,i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold.

    so yeah,6am,dark,snowy,dark dressed "bad guy" andmy rifle.

    i cant get to sleep now....
    Sounds like you overreacted a bit. But, not too too bad.


    What kind of rifle was it?

    Do you own a handgun?

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    i said dont move or your gonna get shot.
    So you would've shot him if he moved? I hope you don't get many visitors to your house. I sure hate it for the Jehova witnesses in your neighborhood. LOL

    It's just my opinion, but I would trade in the rifle for a handgun and answer the door like a rational person and decide if my visitor was a threat or a relative before capping them. If it is that bad in your area you might consider a camera focused on your front door so you can at least see who is knocking before you put three rounds thru the door. If it is the neighbors kid (asking for help) you will have to shoot lower.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Hmm, someone trying your door handle early-ish in the morning? I might be a bit uptight about that too. We don't know how we'd react until we were put in the same situation, but I'd probably come to the door with gun in hand as well. I can't fault you for handling the situation as you did....especially how he was dressed, and just got out of jail? Yeah.....this guy doesn't have a whole lot of brains, does he.....

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    so here i was,about a half hour ago actually.sleeping,as i usually to till 10am(it was just after 6)

    so yeah there i was sleeping,and the dog barks and jumps off the bed,waking me up and causing a serious adrenaline rush.

    i hear a noise at the door,so i grab my rifle and chamber a round.and proceed toward the frontdoor with the rifle shouldered,once i got to the front door i said dont move or your gonna get shot.turned out it was my sisters father,he yelled it was him.he doesnt live here and just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand and was just looking for a place to keep warm,i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold.

    so yeah,6am,dark,snowy,dark dressed "bad guy" andmy rifle.

    i cant get to sleep now....
    Sounds like you overreacted a bit. But, not too too bad.


    What kind of rifle was it?

    Do you own a handgun?
    i couldnt think of anything else to say,but i feel it was a decent thing to say considering it was a loud pounding on my door just after 6am,when we get visitors maybe once or twice a month at most,and thats during the afternoon

    my ruger 10/22,it was the only thing that was out with an already loaded magazine.

    it is a "michigan pistol"

    and no i do not,under 21,and do not have the money to buy one from a private seller.

    first time dealin with that,i couldnt get backto sleep until 9 because of the adrenaline.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    You didn't just draw on a Burglar, you drew on an unknown / anunidentifeid target. Maybe a small sign on the door that reads (If you don't have a prescheduled appointment, you need to come back during normal business hours.) other than that Practice your probablescenarios to allow you to better identify visitors,and get a larger caliber firearm if you need to be shooting through an entrydoor on a regular basis.

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    I really don't see much that you did wrong. An "escaped" convict beating on your door at 6am, I would be a little excited also. As for me I prefer a shotgun instead of a rifle or pistol in those situations. The one thing I didn't catch was did you tell him not to move before or after you opened the door.

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    "escaped convict" ???
    "beating on the door"??

    I read that he "heard a noise" at the door. Maybe I overlooked the "beating" description.
    We must not have read the same post. It was his step-father, and he was released, not escaped.
    Are you a politician by any chance? Or work for CNN? The way you doctor up the facts I think you have an excellent career in either field.

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    Rugerp345 wrote:
    "escaped convict" ???
    "beating on the door"??

    I read that he "heard a noise" at the door. Maybe I overlooked the "beating" description.
    We must not have read the same post. It was his step-father, and he was released, not escaped.
    Are you a politician by any chance? Or work for CNN? The way you doctor up the facts I think you have an excellent career in either field.
    couldnt think of anything else to say,but i feel it was a decent thing to say considering it was a loud pounding on my door just after 6am,when we get visitors maybe once or twice a month at most,and thats during the afternoon
    Wouldn't Loud pounding on the door = beating on the door?
    just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand

    He said he just got out of jail and doesn't say he was released. I don't think that convicet are usually released from jail at 4am unless they have just posted bail. Usually when bail is posted it is at least arranged by someone other than the person in lockup so evidently whoever helped him get out of jail just turned him loose to fend for himself. Would you go get your best friend out of jail and then tell him to hit thr road on a cold snowy night leaving him on the doorsteps of his daughter? So the possibilities are:

    1. He was just released on parole at 4am.

    2. He made bail by himself.

    3. He escaped.

    4. Other?

    In any case he "escaped" from being locked up either legally or illegally.


    es·caped, es·cap·ing, es·capes

    v.intr.
    1. To break loose from confinement; get free: escape from jail.
    2. To issue from confinement or an enclosure; leak or seep out: Gas was escaping from the vent.

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    what WE and the news media should always do in a situation like this is ASK QUESTIONS instead of ASSUMING. don't you know that when you assume something you make an ASS out of U and ME???


    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    so here i was,about a half hour ago actually.sleeping,as i usually to till 10am(it was just after 6)

    so yeah there i was sleeping,and the dog barks and jumps off the bed,waking me up and causing a serious adrenaline rush.

    i hear a noise at the door,so i grab my rifle and chamber a round.and proceed toward the front*door with the rifle shouldered,once i got to the front door i said dont move or your gonna get shot.turned out it was my sisters father,he yelled it was him.he doesnt live here and just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand and was just looking for a place to keep warm,i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outside*waiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold.

    so yeah,6am,dark,snowy,dark dressed "bad guy" and*my rifle.

    i cant get to sleep now....
    1) this noise at the door??? can you describe it in better detail???

    2) did the person identify himself BEFORE or AFTER you threatened to shoot???

    3) what do you mean by ".......my sisters father,........just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand"??? do you mean released or escaped???

    4) how was the relationship between you and her father??? why did he come to your house instead of somebody else's???

    5) when you say "he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outside*waiting for the others to wake up", do you mean he had been standing out there silently just waiting, or had he been ringing the doorbell or otherwise trying to make contact with no results???








    but all data/facts aside, even i would grab my shotgun if i heard a noise at 6am. only 2 things happen at my doors at 6am. either nothing cuz we're still sleeping, or my wife is EXITING through them to go to work. but perhaps i'm just a bit jumpy after having been burglarized TWICE last year.

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    PT111 wrote:
    He said he just got out of jail and doesn't say he was released. I don't think that convicet are usually released from jail at 4am unless they have just posted bail.
    Too many assumptions. There are many reasons why someone might be in jail but not a "convict." Perhaps he was picked up for DUI/DIP/etc. and taken to jail to sleep it off? If you don't give the cops/magistrate/jailers a hard time, you may get out early enough that you wont have to explain to your boss why you are coming in late. (At least they used to do that 20-30 years ago when I was still sowing oats.)

    Not saying that's what happened, just that assumptions don't usually help with understanding the entire situation.

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    so here i was,about a half hour ago actually.sleeping,as i usually to till 10am(it was just after 6)

    so yeah there i was sleeping,and the dog barks and jumps off the bed,waking me up and causing a serious adrenaline rush.

    i hear a noise at the door,so i grab my rifle and chamber a round.and proceed toward the frontdoor with the rifle shouldered,once i got to the front door i said dont move or your gonna get shot.turned out it was my sisters father,he yelled it was him.he doesnt live here and just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand and was just looking for a place to keep warm,i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold.

    so yeah,6am,dark,snowy,dark dressed "bad guy" andmy rifle.

    i cant get to sleep now....
    Sounds like you overreacted a bit. But, not too too bad.


    What kind of rifle was it?

    Do you own a handgun?
    i couldnt think of anything else to say,but i feel it was a decent thing to say considering it was a loud pounding on my door just after 6am,when we get visitors maybe once or twice a month at most,and thats during the afternoon

    my ruger 10/22,it was the only thing that was out with an already loaded magazine.

    it is a "michigan pistol"

    and no i do not,under 21,and do not have the money to buy one from a private seller.

    first time dealin with that,i couldnt get backto sleep until 9 because of the adrenaline.
    Doesn't sound like you were prepared all that well. Plus, you escalated the situation--needlessly.

    This was a no-threat situation.

    No need for a gun. No need to threaten to shoot anyone.

    Things would have worked out slightly better if you had justslept through it...

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    scorpio_vette wrote:

    1) this noise at the door??? can you describe it in better detail???

    2) did the person identify himself BEFORE or AFTER you threatened to shoot???

    3) what do you mean by ".......my sisters father,........just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand"??? do you mean released or escaped???

    4) how was the relationship between you and her father??? why did he come to your house instead of somebody else's???

    5) when you say "he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up", do you mean he had been standing out there silently just waiting, or had he been ringing the doorbell or otherwise trying to make contact with no results???








    but all data/facts aside, even i would grab my shotgun if i heard a noise at 6am. only 2 things happen at my doors at 6am. either nothing cuz we're still sleeping, or my wife is EXITING through them to go to work. but perhaps i'm just a bit jumpy after having been burglarized TWICE last year.
    1.LOUD banging and indistinct yelling

    2.after.

    3.released at 5am supposedly.

    4.he used to live here and half the time still tries claiming it as his legal address,though he hasnt lived here in at least 3 years.

    5.silently.



    i have been robbed twice in the last 3 years.



    as for the other person mentioning a sign of sorts...



    does that count?

    NRA,MOC-lawful carry welcome,no trespassing violators will be shot sign.

    i lost half my normal sleep time today because of that adrenaline rush,and the what if's
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    scorpio_vette wrote:

    1) this noise at the door??? can you describe it in better detail???

    2) did the person identify himself BEFORE or AFTER you threatened to shoot???

    3) what do you mean by ".......my sisters father,........just got out of jail an hour or 2 beforehand"??? do you mean released or escaped???

    4) how was the relationship between you and her father??? why did he come to your house instead of somebody else's???

    5) when you say "he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up", do you mean he had been standing out there silently just waiting, or had he been ringing the doorbell or otherwise trying to make contact with no results???








    but all data/facts aside, even i would grab my shotgun if i heard a noise at 6am. only 2 things happen at my doors at 6am. either nothing cuz we're still sleeping, or my wife is EXITING through them to go to work. but perhaps i'm just a bit jumpy after having been burglarized TWICE last year.
    1.LOUD banging and indistinct yelling

    2.after.

    3.released at 5am supposedly.

    4.he used to live here and half the time still tries claiming it as his legal address,though he hasnt lived here in at least 3 years.

    5.silently.



    i have been robbed twice in the last 3 years.



    as for the other person mentioning a sign of sorts...



    does that count?

    NRA,MOC-lawful carry welcome,no trespassing violators will be shot sign.

    i lost half my normal sleep time today because of that adrenaline rush,and the what if's
    Strongly suggest that you remove the "survivors will be shot again" sign. A sleeping prosecutor could make a good case against you just from that one thing .

    I had that exact sign many summers ago - my liability agent (a friends also) went ballistic when he saw it on my back door. Demanded it come down immediately - it did.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Dude, you did just fine. Nobody got hurt, or even close to it, and you kept yourself safe which is the most important thing. The "holier than thou" typesare responding to having all the info in hindsight while fully awake and trying to make you feel stupid. Besides,they werent in your shoes. Take their criticism with a grain of salt and learn from the hindsight perspective. At least there was somegood constructive criticism.My only suggestion, as someone else mentioned, is getsomething better than a .22 rifle for loaded and ready for home defense next time. Shotguns are agood choice and they're cheap.

    And Im going with Grapeshots advice ont he sticker also. It looks cool but that little bit of "cool" could cost you big time should SHTF.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Kelly Ash wrote:
    Dude, you did just fine. Nobody got hurt, or even close to it, and you kept yourself safe which is the most important thing. The "holier than thou" typesare responding to having all the info in hindsight while fully awake and trying to make you feel stupid. Besides,they werent in your shoes. Take their criticism with a grain of salt and learn from the hindsight perspective. At least there was somegood constructive criticism.My only suggestion, as someone else mentioned, is getsomething better than a .22 rifle for loaded and ready for home defense next time. Shotguns are agood choice and they're cheap.
    Patently poor taste to suggest that we are trying to make him "feel stupid" or that anyone is "holier" than the next.

    Monday morning quarterbacking is what occurs here - some refer to debriefing or AARA (after action review & assessment) - it is all the same.

    OP told his story, responses were given back and forth - that is what a blog forum is and what we do - it is how we all learn, by sharing.

    Don't see that anyone was offensive nor that he took offense.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Kelly Ash wrote:
    Dude, you did just fine. Nobody got hurt, or even close to it, and you kept yourself safe which is the most important thing. The "holier than thou" typesare responding to having all the info in hindsight while fully awake and trying to make you feel stupid. Besides,they werent in your shoes. Take their criticism with a grain of salt and learn from the hindsight perspective. At least there was somegood constructive criticism.My only suggestion, as someone else mentioned, is getsomething better than a .22 rifle for loaded and ready for home defense next time. Shotguns are agood choice and they're cheap.
    Patently poor taste to suggest that we are trying to make him "feel stupid" or that anyone is "holier" than the next.

    Monday morning quarterbacking is what occurs here - some refer to debriefing or AARA (after action review & assessment) - it is all the same.

    OP told his story, responses were given back and forth - that is what a blog forum is and what we do - it is how we all learn, by sharing.

    Don't see that anyone was offensive nor that he took offense.

    Yata hey
    I didnt see anything from you that could be construed as "holier than thou" so your "we" doesnt apply. HankT telling him he over-reacted and escalated a situation was not only incorrect, as the situation quickly de-escalated because of his actions, itwas "holier than thou", condescending, and "offensive" as you put it.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Kelly Ash wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Kelly Ash wrote:
    Dude, you did just fine. Nobody got hurt, or even close to it, and you kept yourself safe which is the most important thing. The "holier than thou" typesare responding to having all the info in hindsight while fully awake and trying to make you feel stupid. Besides,they werent in your shoes. Take their criticism with a grain of salt and learn from the hindsight perspective. At least there was somegood constructive criticism.My only suggestion, as someone else mentioned, is getsomething better than a .22 rifle for loaded and ready for home defense next time. Shotguns are agood choice and they're cheap.
    Patently poor taste to suggest that we are trying to make him "feel stupid" or that anyone is "holier" than the next.

    Monday morning quarterbacking is what occurs here - some refer to debriefing or AARA (after action review & assessment) - it is all the same.

    OP told his story, responses were given back and forth - that is what a blog forum is and what we do - it is how we all learn, by sharing.

    Don't see that anyone was offensive nor that he took offense.

    Yata hey
    I didnt see anything from you that could be construed as "holier than thou" so I wasnt talking about you. HankT telling him he over-reacted and escalated a situation was not only incorrect, as the situation quickly de-escalated because of his actions, itwas "holier than thou", condescending, and offensive.
    Many here simply ignore HankT's baiting - if you look deep enough though there is meat to be had there. He most often is asking provoking questions - not trying to just provoke. If you get to know Hank, he'll cause you to think - most just don't really listen. He lives in Joisey - give him a break. :P

    That and you did use the plural -"types" and "they" - not really flaming you or picking on you. I mean that.

    I had questions/thoughts too i.e. I would never even think about shooting through a door, sure wouldn't threaten it either. What if a LEO was the one doing the banging? And then there is the know your target thing.

    If someone misspeaks, there is no benefit from striking back - answer from fact or opinion, but hopefully no personal references. We try to be polite and responsible here - just as we want everybody to be when OCing.

    This site is widely read and there are those of us that wish it to be perceived in a positive light by that readership - which includes the press, politicians, fence-sitters and even the antis.

    Anyhow - no damage - glad we talked.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold."
    That is a good dog. it didn't bark until it felt that the outsider was a direct threat to you. I don't like dogs that bark every time a kid rides by on a bicycle.

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    Would have done the same. Ignore those who say that you over reacted. Everyone knows in my family and friends that THEY MUST call before coming over. It is not only good manors it keeps them from getting shot. For those who say I should be able to tell my family from a foe need to remember that when your awoken from a dead sleep it takes up to 30 mins for you to be 100% aware of your surroundings / fully awake.

    With it being that hour of the morning and the manner in which he showed up I would say you did everything ok in my book. The fact that he was released from jail is another wtf moment. Now i do not know why he went and its none of my business but that is another thing that would make me uneasy as well for him just showing up.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  22. #22
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    What if a LEO was the one doing the banging?
    top half of the door is basically windows,and not the design ones that you cant see out of,just regular glass.



    arent LEO's supposed to state that they are LEO?



    and i like playing into hanks questions from time to time,quite often they actually make you think about something,the other half is just good fun with him.

    sign mention duly noted,ill have to grab some spray paint and cover over that part.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    gravedigger wrote:
    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    i guess he'd been standing there for a good 10 minutes just standing there outsidewaiting for the others to wake up for the morning,but had just gotten too cold."
    That is a good dog. it didn't bark until it felt that the outsider was a direct threat to you. I don't like dogs that bark every time a kid rides by on a bicycle.
    Man's best friend, indeed. I Highly recommend a dog to anyone who is able to have one and is serious about home defense. Just out of curiosity, what kind of dog is it?

    My 97lb. Shepherd sleeps right in front of the front door most nights, as if he feels it's his duty. It's great because I'm a heavy sleeper so I can sleep in peace knowing that he's going to sound the alarm if anything goes down. When he goes off, my gun belt goes on!

  24. #24
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    @ OP, seems like you were prepared for violence, which is good, but you must also be prepared to deal with strangers, children, pets, people who were in an accident etc etc...



    What I'm getting at is, telling somebody on the opposite side of your door to 'not move or you'll shoot them' isn't a very sound idea. What if it was a neighbors kid? There are so many ways where that kind of "greeting" will bring unintended, negative consequences.



    Be safe, be smart, be vigilant.

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    SsevenN wrote:
    @ OP, seems like you were prepared for violence, which is good, but you must also be prepared to deal with strangers, children, pets, people who were in an accident etc etc...



    What I'm getting at is, telling somebody on the opposite side of your door to 'not move or you'll shoot them' isn't a very sound idea. What if it was a neighbors kid? There are so many ways where that kind of "greeting" will bring unintended, negative consequences.



    Be safe, be smart, be vigilant.
    with the severity of the banging on the door,i feel my words were justified,if it had been on the glass portion of the door instead of the wood,it probably would have been hard enough to crack and/or break it.

    i talked with him and discussed very seriously about why he shouldnt be pounding on it that hard,especially uninvited at 6am

    my dog is about a year old,she is mostly black lab and has some pit in her,looks like a lab,but smaller like a pit,and her facial structure is a mix of pit and lab.

    RARELY barks,which is why when she does i know something isnt right.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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