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What would you do?

M

mikestilly

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stainless1911 wrote:
If the cop erases or breaks something couldnt the cop be charged with tampering, obstroction or malicious destruction? He may even be violating some fedral FCC thing?

A cop like this should be fired, and sent to prison, but should not be allowed to hide his identity as a former LEO while in prison.
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Sure but just like your case it's your word versus another. You know how that crap goes. Not only that look at the long history of the law enforcement code of silence. Did you like the outcome of your case? Think how different it would have been if you had a video of everything to play in court.
 
M

mikestilly

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PT111 wrote:
I know in a court for a person to be found guilty it requires that the prosecution demonstrate by a preponderance of evidence or evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the crime.  In other words that the prosecution must prove guilt rather than the defendant prove innocence. I have seen this in and actual case where I wa on the jury that the defendant did not provide any testimony or witnesses on his behalf, rather depended on the jury to determine if the prosecution had proved their case. 

The Constitution phohibits unreasonable bail so if a person in Innocent until proven Guilty then why do they even have to put up bail.  The question I want to know is where the "Innocent until proven guilty" phrase come from and what exactly does it mean?  In the OP we do have a good case where someone is accused of something that we feel that he did not do but how does he prove it?  He should not have to prove that he did not pull a gun but since we have a witness that says that he did how do we determine who is lying?  This is very similar to many rape cases where the woman says he did and the man says he did not.  We can hope that the LEO or someone is a witness and can provide actual truth but I am afraid in the OP's case he is going to be in trouble and hopefully that if there are not other witnesses that he can tell a more believable story than the other person. 

Most have advised the OP to not say anything without a lawyer but that will probably result in an arrest and trial.  But if you should decide to talk to the police be sure of a couple of things, one is that you tell the truth and not give opinions or make accusations.  Second is that be sure of your story before you say anything and never change your story.  A changing story is sure to sway the jury that you were lying at some time.

On a different note I just left the courtroom from being called for jury duty.  I was struck from the case as they didn't want anyone who looked like they had some sense on the jury.
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Yeah your talking a criminal trial only. Civil trial is much different and much less of a burden. A simple false charge of a violation of your CPL is a civil infraction. I will in no way let that one happen to me if I can have anything do with it.
 
P

PT111

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, South Carolina, USA
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mikestilly wrote:
PT111 wrote:
I know in a court for a person to be found guilty it requires that the prosecution demonstrate by a preponderance of evidence or evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the crime. In other words that the prosecution must prove guilt rather than the defendant prove innocence. I have seen this in and actual case where I wa on the jury that the defendant did not provide any testimony or witnesses on his behalf, rather depended on the jury to determine if the prosecution had proved their case.

The Constitution phohibits unreasonable bail so if a person in Innocent until proven Guilty then why do they even have to put up bail. The question I want to know is where the "Innocent until proven guilty" phrase come from and what exactly does it mean? In the OP we do have a good case where someone is accused of something that we feel that he did not do but how does he prove it? He should not have to prove that he did not pull a gun but since we have a witness that says that he did how do we determine who is lying? This is very similar to many rape cases where the woman says he did and the man says he did not. We can hope that the LEO or someone is a witness and can provide actual truth but I am afraid in the OP's case he is going to be in trouble and hopefully that if there are not other witnesses that he can tell a more believable story than the other person.

Most have advised the OP to not say anything without a lawyer but that will probably result in an arrest and trial. But if you should decide to talk to the police be sure of a couple of things, one is that you tell the truth and not give opinions or make accusations. Second is that be sure of your story before you say anything and never change your story. A changing story is sure to sway the jury that you were lying at some time.

On a different note I just left the courtroom from being called for jury duty. I was struck from the case as they didn't want anyonewho looked like theyhadsome sense on the jury.
Click to expand...

Yeah your talking a criminal trial only. Civil trial is much different and much less of a burden. A simple false charge of a violation of your CPL is a civil infraction. I will in no way let that one happen to me if I can have anything do with it.
Click to expand...
If I proclaim that you pulled a gun on me, isthata civil infraction? I would have thougt that was a criminal infraction much like assault. Or is that a civil infraction also?
 
HankT

HankT

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Smithc11369 wrote:
Say your driving in a parking lot and you cut someone off with your car on accident. You park, get out, and the guy starts arguing with you and notices you have a gun with you (concealed but he sees it). You part ways and go into the store even though he is still upset. Meanwhile, he calls the police and says that you pulled a gun on him even though you didn't. The cops get there and they trust his word over yours after finding the gun on you.

What would you guys do in this situation? If you or someone you know has been in this situation, how was it handled? If your a LE agent, how would you handle this situation.
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First thing I would do is kick myself for letting the other fellow see my gun. That's my bad.

Next thing I do is hope the cops will listen to my side of the story and explain it them as convincingly as possible.

If they don't buy it and charge me, then I kick myself again--for the money I'll have to pay my lawyer to either a) defend me against the charge, or, b) prove my innocence.

What's the old saying around here?

Ah, it is:

Concealed means concealed!
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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HankT wrote:
Smithc11369 wrote:
Say your driving in a parking lot and you cut someone off with your car on accident. You park, get out, and the guy starts arguing with you and notices you have a gun with you (concealed but he sees it). You part ways and go into the store even though he is still upset. Meanwhile, he calls the police and says that you pulled a gun on him even though you didn't. The cops get there and they trust his word over yours after finding the gun on you.

What would you guys do in this situation? If you or someone you know has been in this situation, how was it handled? If your a LE agent, how would you handle this situation.
Click to expand...


First thing I would do is kick myself for letting the other fellow see my gun. That's my bad.


What's the old saying around here?

Ah, it is:

Concealed means concealed!
Click to expand...
Um, this is an open carry forum. Why not check out USCCA.
 
HankT

HankT

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stainless1911 wrote:
HankT wrote:
Smithc11369 wrote:
Say your driving in a parking lot and you cut someone off with your car on accident. You park, get out, and the guy starts arguing with you and notices you have a gun with you (concealed but he sees it). You part ways and go into the store even though he is still upset. Meanwhile, he calls the police and says that you pulled a gun on him even though you didn't. The cops get there and they trust his word over yours after finding the gun on you.

What would you guys do in this situation? If you or someone you know has been in this situation, how was it handled? If your a LE agent, how would you handle this situation.
Click to expand...


First thing I would do is kick myself for letting the other fellow see my gun. That's my bad.


What's the old saying around here?

Ah, it is:

Concealed means concealed!
Click to expand...
Um, this is an open carry forum. Why not check out USCCA.
Click to expand...

Huh? Oh, never mind.

SS1911, what would you do in the situation the OP describes above?
 
SpringerXDacp

SpringerXDacp

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Burton, Michigan
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Smithc11369 wrote:
Say your driving in a parking lot and you cut someone off with your car on accident. You park, get out, and the guy starts arguing with you and notices you have a gun with you (concealed but he sees it). You part ways and go into the store even though he is still upset. Meanwhile, he calls the police and says that you pulled a gun on him even though you didn't. The cops get there and they trust his word over yours after finding the gun on you.

What would you guys do in this situation? If you or someone you know has been in this situation, how was it handled? If your a LE agent, how would you handle this situation.
Click to expand...
I would hope the parking lot I was in, businesses nearby would have video surveillance to prove otherwise or witnesses to corroborate my side of the story.
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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Honestly after what I went through, I would have my voice recorder going, I dont OC without it and if the guy was irate, I would avoid the person and call the police myself. The first thing off, is I would do my best to get in the veiw of a security camera, and if possible, Id get the plate number. I would discuss only his actions with the police, not mine,I wouldonly tell the police that I called them, got his plate, and what he did. If I felt that the police were starting to investigate me, I would simply shut up.
 
Bailenforcer

Bailenforcer

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Joined
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City
imported post

Smithc11369 wrote:
Say your driving in a parking lot and you cut someone off with your car on accident. You park, get out, and the guy starts arguing with you and notices you have a gun with you (concealed but he sees it). You part ways and go into the store even though he is still upset. Meanwhile, he calls the police and says that you pulled a gun on him even though you didn't. The cops get there and they trust his word over yours after finding the gun on you.

What would you guys do in this situation? If you or someone you know has been in this situation, how was it handled? If your a LE agent, how would you handle this situation.
Click to expand...
I would handle it as I did a few years ago, but I didn't cut him off he was just an idiot.

Almost the same situation the idiot became confrontational and when I realizd he was looking at my lump under my shirt, I suspected he might get stupid. So I called the police and reported him as confrontational and in a fighting mood and they found him and guess what? He had a warrant. Bye Bye

Being proactive instead of reactive is your best bet.
 
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