What would you do?

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Say your driving in a parking lot and you cut someone off with your car on accident. You park, get out, and the guy starts arguing with you and notices you have a gun with you (concealed but he sees it). You part ways and go into the store even though he is still upset. Meanwhile, he calls the police and says that you pulled a gun on him even though you didn't. The cops get there and they trust his word over yours after finding the gun on you.

What would you guys do in this situation? If you or someone you know has been in this situation, how was it handled? If your a LE agent, how would you handle this situation.

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"(concealed but he sees it)."
is this a trick question? Sort of like a "live corpse" isn't it?


This is where my digital recorder comes in. His version wouldn't match up with my version and the recording. Obviously not as good as a video recording, but the words that were exchanged would throw doubt on his story. "He pulled his gun out and said he was going to blast me. officer!"

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yeah I would tell the cop what happened. Hopefully you have a few years of carrying behind you to show a trend of lawful activity and that brandishing is not what you do and you have the years of experience to prove it.

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Dunno if anyone else is bothered by it, but I see a basic flaw in this thread. Everyone is jumping to prove themselves innocent. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

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jeremy05 wrote:

yeah I would tell the cop what happened. Hopefully you have a few years of carrying behind you to show a trend of lawful activity and that brandishing is not what you do and you have the years of experience to prove it.

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That wont work in court, trust me, I know. I tried to bring in police reports about me OC in the past, my lawyer said they couldnt be used becausethey would be consideredhearsay.

I would have brought them up anyhow, if the prosecutor said "objection" it gives you an opportunity to discuss it more. You cant unring the bell.

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Innocent untill proven guilty? HA! that holds about as much weight as the constitution.

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stainless1911 wrote:

Innocent untill proven guilty? HA! that holds about as much weight as the constitution.

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In your case it was a civil infraction which only requires 51% of the evidence one way or the other. In the scenario posted by the OP it would be a misdemeanor at least and possibly a felony which would entitle you to trial by jury and the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

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TheSzerdi wrote:

Dunno if anyone else is bothered by it, but I see a basic flaw in this thread. Everyone is jumping to prove themselves innocent. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

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i fear that these days it has basically became guilty until proven innocent.

especially with OC

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Quick story. I was out with a few people, and we were drinking (I was obviously not armed because of drinking), someone started a fight with me so I defended myself. He called the police and told them I pistol whipped him, police came out asked me what happend and told me to have a good night, and not to drive. End of story, now I'm sure if it was some prick cop things could have been worse but not this time.

Oh the guy that called PD is someone I use to hang out with and knew I normally carried.

God Bless

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Yes, I was referring to it in general, not my case in particular.

For instance, my license was suspended before I was found responsible. --before = guilty without conviction, = guilt untill proven innocent.

I once had to take random alcohol/breath tests at my cost, before even a pretrial. Thecase was dismissed, but still, punishment without conviction = guilt without conviction, = guilty until proven innocent.

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This kind of possible scenario is exactly why i love my recorder. I have hard evidence of a non-threatening encounter they have hearsay.

JMO

Devery

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So to answer your question I guess it would

1. Depend if I knew the cop, if so just tell him what happened

2. Didn't know that cop and was a dick head, than I would Shut The F*ck Up

3 Cop seemed annoyed that this other guy called him out for some BS, than I would be up front, and suggest he go talk to the people in the store I was going into and see how I was acting when I came in.

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manicdevery wrote:

This kind of possible scenario is exactly why i love my recorder. I have hard evidence of a non-threatening encounter they have hearsay.

JMO

Devery

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Just remember a recorder can easily be confiscated and your tape removed or erased. Especially when you have incriminating evidence on an officer. The only real safe way is broadcast it offsite where it can be stored offsite. Also carry multiple recorders.

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mikestilly wrote:

manicdevery wrote:

This kind of possible scenario is exactly why i love my recorder. I have hard evidence of a non-threatening encounter they have hearsay.

JMO

Devery

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Just remember a recorder can easily be confiscated and your tape removed or erased. Especially when you have incriminating evidence on an officer. The only real safe way is broadcast it offsite where it can be stored offsite. Also carry multiple recorders.

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If you have a smart phone than download the "Cop Recorder", its a free app! It hides the recorder, and its hard to turn off! And nearly impossible to earase, its sneaky!

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The key is still broadcasting. Your phone can be seized and or broken beyond repair in which the most fancy recording app with be rendered useless..

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eastmeyers wrote:

So to answer your question I guess it would

1. Depend if I knew the cop, if so just tell him what happened

2. Didn't know that cop and was a dick head, than I would Shut The F*ck Up

3 Cop seemed annoyed that this other guy called him out for some BS, than I would be up front, and suggest he go talk to the people in the store I was going into and see how I was acting when I came in.

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Police are not much interested in how folks act before or after a possible crime... they want to know who did what at the time it happened in order to arrest the person who did the thing at the time the thing was done.

Later... in court... character witnesses, including those folks you mentioned being in the store you were going into, might... I say might, carry some weight with the judge/jury.

I have no doubt that officers have heard someone say... "Don't you know who I am!!!????" as they put the cuffs on them... and the officer says something on the order of... "Yes Sir. I do." or "You will have an opportunity to explain that to the judge." ...as he locks the cuffs down.

So, to the cop, it just doesn't matter who you are or how great a citizen you have been nor how long you have been such a great citizen.... as long as he/she has evidence that will stand up in court to prove that a crime was committed by you... regardless of how upstanding you were before, or after, the crime.

The above is not to say that the Mayor's story wouldn't be more believable to an officer than a skid row bum's story......:what:

I gotta go buy a voice recorder!!!! The comment by Manicdevery about hard evidence as opposed to hearsay is one of the best things I've read so far!

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If the cop erases or breaks something couldnt the cop be charged with tampering, obstroction or malicious destruction? He may even be violating some fedral FCC thing?

A cop like this should be fired, and sent to prison, but should not be allowed to hide his identity as a former LEO while in prison.

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Ability to transmit to off site recording device is the way to go. This "Cop Recorder" on smart phone is a good idea. Even if they take your smart phone, whatever is already on record will be out of reach

eastmeyers wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

manicdevery wrote:

This kind of possible scenario is exactly why i love my recorder. I have hard evidence of a non-threatening encounter they have hearsay.

JMO

Devery

Click to expand...

Just remember a recorder can easily be confiscated and your tape removed or erased. Especially when you have incriminating evidence on an officer. The only real safe way is broadcast it offsite where it can be stored offsite. Also carry multiple recorders.

Click to expand...

If you have a smart phone than download the "Cop Recorder", its a free app! It hides the recorder, and its hard to turn off! And nearly impossible to earase, its sneaky!

Click to expand...

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I know in a court for a person to be found guilty it requires that the prosecution demonstrate by a preponderance of evidence or evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the crime. In other words that the prosecution must prove guilt rather than the defendant prove innocence. I have seen this in and actual case where I wa on the jury that the defendant did not provide any testimony or witnesses on his behalf, rather depended on the jury to determine if the prosecution had proved their case.

The Constitution phohibits unreasonable bail so if a person in Innocent until proven Guilty then why do they even have to put up bail. The question I want to know is where the "Innocent until proven guilty" phrase come from and what exactly does it mean? In the OP we do have a good case where someone is accused of something that we feel that he did not do but how does he prove it? He should not have to prove that he did not pull a gun but since we have a witness that says that he did how do we determine who is lying? This is very similar to many rape cases where the woman says he did and the man says he did not. We can hope that the LEO or someone is a witness and can provide actual truth but I am afraid in the OP's case he is going to be in trouble and hopefully that if there are not other witnesses that he can tell a more believable story than the other person.

Most have advised the OP to not say anything without a lawyer but that will probably result in an arrest and trial. But if you should decide to talk to the police be sure of a couple of things, one is that you tell the truth and not give opinions or make accusations. Second is that be sure of your story before you say anything and never change your story. A changing story is sure to sway the jury that you were lying at some time.

On a different note I just left the courtroom from being called for jury duty. I was struck from the case as they didn't want anyonewho looked like theyhadsome sense on the jury.