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Thread: Mid rivers mall

  1. #1
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    The doors have the circle and slash over a gun decal but legally they don't count. I suppose they could ask you to put your gun in the car... But until then I'd carry.

    Just a few moments ago I gave it a test and no one said a thing.

    If the do ask you to put your protection in your vehicle tell them you want it written and signed that your and your familys protection is soley in their hands and the responsibility is theirs to make sure your safe if someone were to attack you. This usually results in them allowing you to carry

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    DarenGlock23 wrote:
    The doors have the circle and slash over a gun decal but legally they don't count. I suppose they could ask you to put your gun in the car... But until then I'd carry.

    Just a few moments ago I gave it a test and no one said a thing.

    If the do ask you to put your protection in your vehicle tell them you want it written and signed that your and your familys protection is soley in their hands and the responsibility is theirs to make sure your safe if someone were to attack you. This usually results in them allowing you to carry
    Sounds like a $100 mistake to me...do as you will.

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    To make it unlawful to carry the property owner has to post all weapons prohibited and it has to be 11inx14in with 1in tall letters...

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    Good luck with your theory and keep a barrel full of tightly packed $100.00 bills handy.

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    After a mall representative (hypothetically) tells you they don't want you carrying openly, is it a violation of law to remain? Or is that only when a cop tells you to leave?

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    If they ask you not to carry then you have to put your weapon in your car... If u don't then you can get in big trouble.I was told today they don't allow oc and I told them they need to properly inform customers with the correct sign. They understood and I asked about a signed document insuring my saftey and they said cc

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    A 100$ mistake?For those of you who DONT know,if you do some research you will find that in Missouri for a sighn to be LEGAL,I will say that again LEGAL,it MUST be at LEAST 11X14 inches with at LEAST 1 inch lettering.Most those SHEEPLE do not have a CLUE about LEGAL sighn size and think anything will do.So,dont worry,you can go ahead and open carry if they have their impropper sighn posted,telling them ,what I myself have told some,that i didnt see a sighn to show it to me.When they take me to the sighn,and show it to me,I just tell them,I didnt notice it because its not the propper size to be a legally posted sighn.I then contiune with what I was doing,then if the ask me to leave,the proper person that is,I will leave.Thats their right,as is mine to carry!
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    That was my point to begin with... They called the cops. As I was leaving the lot they pulled me over ran my gun while I sat on the curb in cuffs. I let them do what they wanted and when they asked why I told that it's my right and they don't have it properly posted.

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    cash50 wrote:
    After a mall representative (hypothetically) tells you they don't want you carrying openly, is it a violation of law to remain? Or is that only when a cop tells you to leave?
    Cash,

    Yes, if you are OC and you get asked to leave. You must do so immediately. If you try to do what DarrenGlock23is saying:

    "If the do ask you to put your protection in your vehicle tell them you want it written and signed that your and your familys protection is soley in their hands and the responsibility is theirs to make sure your safe if someone were to attack you."

    This is trespass under Missouri Statue 569.140 and is aclass B misdemeanor, because you are standing there arguing with either the owner or another authorized person about getting something in writing...which you will from the cops..lol. If you leave, no issue's. I think its up to 6 months in jail and/or $500 fine.

    Now, if you are CCW and getasked to leave (571.107 [15]), by: The owner, business or commercial lessee, manager of a private business enterprise, or any other organization, entity, or person may prohibit persons holding a concealed carry endorsement from carrying concealed firearms on the premises...

    If the cops are called you may get a ticket for a$100 fine, if it's your first offense.

    Don't be surprised if your charged under 569, even if you are ccw, because again, you were dumb enough to stay around and argue with the owner.

    Stay safe.

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    I'm suggesting to argue with the person asking to leave. But to ask in a polite manner. I guess I didn't write it out enough. Agree to comply but still ask them for a document or protection responsibilities.

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    Dammit! I meant Im NOT suggesting to argue... ******* typos.

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    If you are asked to leave by a propietor you must do so immediately. Simply carrying into a posted zone in Missouri is not an offense (rather, an "infraction" that carries no penalty), but if you're asked to leave you must do so immediately or you can be arrested for criminal trespass.

    As far as the signs, yes the letter of the law requires 11x14 and one-inch lettering, but to the best of my knowledge there is no case law to set a precedent for this and I am guessing a court would find any sign to be a "reasonable request" by the proprietor.

    Honestly I would hope that gun owners would take some time to learn the laws before doing things like this...it just fuels the antis' perception that we are lawless rednecks.


    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    DarenGlock23 wrote:
    Dammit! I meant Im NOT suggesting to argue... @#$%ing typos.
    Did you know you can go back into a post a fix those @#$%ing typos just by hitting the "EDIT" button?

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    DarenGlock23, I appreciate your enthusiasm. However, in this case, I think your enthusiasm has/will lead to noxious results.

    Noxious 1: You said below that LEO was summoned, you were stopped and your sidearm run through the system. Congratulations. Not only were you detained and possibly embarrassed by the detainment, now you and your sidearm are flagged to at least some degree by local LEO as well as by mall security.

    Noxious 2: I also expect that since you kindly informed them that their mall is not properly posted that it will be in the near future. That means that the next time I am visiting my wife's family and I get dragged to the mall with her and my niece that instead of my just walking past the non-compliant posting CC and not thinking about it, I will likely have to deal with walking past a proper sign and either put it in the car or blatantly violate the posting. Neither an option I like.

    Discussion: My guess is that Mid-Rivers management, as several other establishments in that area have done (and I know this through friends of my wife's family who are active in that business community), knew damn well that such posting does not deny CC but it does make the soccer moms feel a lot better. So we all quietly CC and the soccer mom's go about life clueless that half the shoppers around them are carrying.

    In other words, Daren, since as you posted in another thread you have a CCW, that sign was a free pass for you (and everyone else with a CCW). Now the management has to decide if they want to continue offering that free pass for CC or if having to hassle with OC they just might as well post it properly and not deal with any of it.

    Like the founders of OCDO used to tell people early on in our movement - NEVER, directly or indirectly, ask any business to post a no guns sign.

    Edit: formatting & grammar
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Point taken... I will remember that.

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    "If the do ask you to put your protection in your vehicle tell them you want it written and signed that your and your familys protection is soley in their hands and the responsibility is theirs to make sure your safe if someone were to attack you."
    I like that response,next time ,I will remember it and definately respond with it the next time questioned by the proper people.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    DarenGlock23 wrote:
    Point taken... I will remember that.
    Compliments to you again for a non-defensive response to criticism.

    It's obvious to me that you are excited about OC and are sincerely interested in helping further our rights. I see that you are also a new member here. It takes a while to not just learn research and learn our rights (which you obviously have been doing) but to read the forum and learn from the experiences of others throughout the country as to how they have effectively and sometimes ineffectively been fighting for our rights.

    I like to read the Virginia and Washington forums, two states where many of these battles have been won to find out how it was done and how they have continued to expand their rights. Hopefully next year we will be fighting to get the newly passed state preemption of OC recognized throughout the state as they continue to do in those states. The Wisconsin forum also tends to have discussions that may give us good ideas while they are acting on their OC rights since their CC rights continue to be denied by the state.

    Best of luck and I'm glad to have you in our ranks.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Everybody learns new ideas and facts everyday... Not a big deal. Most people in my generation are anti gun and "afraid" of them. Guns don't kill people. Bad people do, and even without gins they will still harm innocent people. Why not fight fire with fire?

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Darren do you live in St. Peters all the time? Or do you go to school up in Warrensburg? I live in St. Charles and would like to meet with and OC with some other local guys.

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    I live in warrenton... Haha I don't go to school. Got out of highschool and bought a house. I'd love to meet up with a few guys and have a day of oc. Text me if ya want to grab some food sometime since I'm bored all the time. 636 497-0637. I'm in st chuck often.

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Ok Darren, I'll be contacting you.

    I have some friends going to school up there, that's why I asked, though.

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    You guys might want to send #'s in a PM, not posted on the site.

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    I know that this post is a bit old, but I have recently joined this site and am very excited about excercising my rights. I am currently stationed at Whiteman AFB and living in Warrensburg, but I am originally from the St. Charles area and travel there often. I too would like to meet with some other OC individuals in these areas.

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    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    I'm always up for a meet.... I live in St.Louis so.

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