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Thread: OC on college campus?

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    I was browsing through Schoolcraft College's policies, and I saw no mention of a weapons policy. I know that CC is illegal in a "pistol free zone" but what is the standing on OC with a CPL? Would it be covered under the exemptions?

    I know most colleges have rules regarding weapons, but I cannot seem to find any for this particular college. Could it be possible that they are using the existing ordinances for Livonia and therefore covered under the Michigan Preemption Law?

    Just something I have been kicking around in my head for a while. I am not willing to be the test case for this(unless you guys want to start a legal fund for me ), just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are on this.

    McSavage



  2. #2
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    If you decide to do this, be sure you're 100% POSITIVE there is no policy ANYWHERE.

    I couldn't readily find Wayne State's either, however once I did, I found it was immediate grounds for dismissal. If you get suspended from a university, your credits also don't transfer from what I understand.

    Careful with that, and double check, cause I don't want anything like this to happen to anyone.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    I will ask about getting the latest hard copy of all of the policies that the school has, and go from there. With all of the violence that occurs on college campuses across the country, I will not let myself be counted as a victim.

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    Not all of campus is a PFZ by law. Only dorms and classrooms. You may legally conceal (with a CPL) anywhere on campus except for those two places.

    The catch here are the university policies, as you mentioned. If there is no policy, you should be good to go. But you have to be 100% sure that there isn't before carrying on campus, lest you find yourself in heaps of trouble.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Once I find out the regulations(or lack thereof) I will be sure to post it up here for everyone to review.

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    I don't get it, but some how, for some reason, some folks think that it's a "gray area". Preemption prohibits local units of government from enacting rules or regs more restrictive on guns than state law.

    Colleges, for the most part, are funded by tax dollars, and patrolled by regular cops. Some have the ability to enact ordinances with the weight of law. How in the hell anyone could think that preemption doesn't apply, I don't get it. But it's seen as a gray area, because the term "college" isn't used in preemption, and I don't believe any schools have been justly sued yet.

    Since it is considered a gray area, it could apparently take a legal battle to defeat charges or fight an expulsion from a school.

    I firmly believe that it is our place to go around to different colleges explaining the law, and explaining that their rules are out of line. It would seem that way anyway, since we're the nerve center of OCing, and that's the only way to carry in a classroom.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    I don't get it, but some how, for some reason, some folks think that it's a "gray area". Preemption prohibits local units of government from enacting rules or regs more restrictive on guns than state law.

    Colleges, for the most part, are funded by tax dollars, and patrolled by regular cops. Some have the ability to enact ordinances with the weight of law. How in the hell anyone could think that preemption doesn't apply, I don't get it. But it's seen as a gray area, because the term "college" isn't used in preemption, and I don't believe any schools have been justly sued yet.

    Since it is considered a gray area, it could apparently take a legal battle to defeat charges or fight an expulsion from a school.

    I firmly believe that it is our place to go around to different colleges explaining the law, and explaining that their rules are out of line. It would seem that way anyway, since we're the nerve center of OCing, and that's the only way to carry in a classroom.
    How do you suggest we make it legally clear that colleges/universities are included in preemption? I read about a bill that was proposed this/last year to take care of that, but it didn't go through. I feel like this is something that could be taken to a very high court if tested.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    EM87 wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    I don't get it, but some how, for some reason, some folks think that it's a "gray area". Preemption prohibits local units of government from enacting rules or regs more restrictive on guns than state law.

    Colleges, for the most part, are funded by tax dollars, and patrolled by regular cops. Some have the ability to enact ordinances with the weight of law. How in the hell anyone could think that preemption doesn't apply, I don't get it. But it's seen as a gray area, because the term "college" isn't used in preemption, and I don't believe any schools have been justly sued yet.

    Since it is considered a gray area, it could apparently take a legal battle to defeat charges or fight an expulsion from a school.

    I firmly believe that it is our place to go around to different colleges explaining the law, and explaining that their rules are out of line. It would seem that way anyway, since we're the nerve center of OCing, and that's the only way to carry in a classroom.
    How do you suggest we make it legally clear that colleges/universities are included in preemption? I read about a bill that was proposed this/last year to take care of that, but it didn't go through. I feel like this is something that could be taken to a very high court if tested.
    Easy OC picnic at the campus of your choice.

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    I know it's a gray area, and I want to be 100% sure before I do anything. I cannot afford to lose my credits, my CPL, and everything I have worked so hard for.

    I was thinking about openly displaying my holster as sort of a silent protest, like some students on other campuses around the country. The would entail me wearing into all facilities on the property including classrooms. I don't think they can expel me for a holster.

  10. #10
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    jonnymcsavage wrote:
    SNIP

    I don't think they can expel me for a holster.
    I wouldn't think so.

    As for Mike's idea - that might end up with all of us getting a citation of some sort.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  11. #11
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    If a tax-payers school can (almost) expel a 9 year old for a 2 inch lego gun, a public university can expel someone for a holster.

    If you're going to, prepare for a lawsuit, just in case you end up getting resistance. Just my thoughts I guess.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    I would think that if we had a picnic, the school and campus "police" would not take too kindly to that. I also think that my status at the school would be in jeopardy if I was to participate as a currently enrolled student.

    I will get all the documentation I can tomorrow and see if they have any policies about weapons on campus and in the buildings.

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    jonnymcsavage wrote:
    I would think that if we had a picnic, the school and campus "police" would not take too kindly to that. I also think that my status at the school would be in jeopardy if I was to participate as a currently enrolled student.

    I will get all the documentation I can tomorrow and see if they have any policies about weapons on campus and in the buildings.
    I don't recall stating a specific school?! The police didn't take it so kindly when we had a picnic in Warren either The first Warren picnic had snipers and the police command center.

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    malignity wrote:
    If a tax-payers school can (almost) expel a 9 year old for a 2 inch lego gun, a public university can expel someone for a holster.

    If you're going to, prepare for a lawsuit, just in case you end up getting resistance. Just my thoughts I guess.
    Do you really think I would get that much resistance for an empty holster? If I had the money to actually force a lawsuit, I would definitely do it, but unfortunately I cannot risk everything I have worked for.

    I have seen students protest everything and not get in trouble for it, so I don't see what the issue would be. I would say better safe than sorry.

  15. #15
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    Found some information pertaining to firearms on Schoolcraft's campus taken directly from the Student Code of Conduct:

    "Illegal or unauthorized possession or use of firearms, explosives, other weapons, dangerous chemicals, or improper use of fire extinguishers on College property. NOTE: Exceptions to possession or use of firearms are: a) certified law enforcement officers, b) students enrolled in Schoolcraft College classes requiring firearms training, c) College-owned firearms used for instructional purposes."

    Here is the link

    http://www.schoolcraft.edu/academics...es/conduct.asp

    I guess no OC is permitted as per their student policy. Does not say anything about holsters though, and I know the PFZ regulations don't carry over to the parking lot.

    I will have to secure my sidearm in the car until the state legislature gets off its collective ass and passes the law that allows me to CC at school.

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:27 PM.

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    True. From what I have read, there have been 5 stolen vehicles over the last year or so. It happened to a friend of mine who got his van stolen last year in broad daylight.

    Wouldn't the state PFZ regulations preempt the college because the college is a state run institution though?

    "
    Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    3. Sports arena or stadium
    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    7. A hospital
    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    9. ACasino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.


    According to this, the parking lots don't count as a PFZ so I don't think any laws would be violated by having a pistol secured in the trunk because I am not concealed carrying it on the "premises"

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:27 PM.

  19. #19
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    EM87 wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    I don't get it, but some how, for some reason, some folks think that it's a "gray area". Preemption prohibits local units of government from enacting rules or regs more restrictive on guns than state law.

    Colleges, for the most part, are funded by tax dollars, and patrolled by regular cops. Some have the ability to enact ordinances with the weight of law. How in the hell anyone could think that preemption doesn't apply, I don't get it. But it's seen as a gray area, because the term "college" isn't used in preemption, and I don't believe any schools have been justly sued yet.

    Since it is considered a gray area, it could apparently take a legal battle to defeat charges or fight an expulsion from a school.

    I firmly believe that it is our place to go around to different colleges explaining the law, and explaining that their rules are out of line. It would seem that way anyway, since we're the nerve center of OCing, and that's the only way to carry in a classroom.
    How do you suggest we make it legally clear that colleges/universities are included in preemption? I read about a bill that was proposed this/last year to take care of that, but it didn't go through. I feel like this is something that could be taken to a very high court if tested.
    There is legislation being written as we write. The bill would include college/universities as local municipalities and place them under preemption. But it's not law yet.
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    Until then, my sidearm will remain at home until I get home from school. I really don't like the idea of driving to and from school without being armed, but I guess its what has to happen if I wish to stay at Schoolcraft.

    It kinda sucks that I can't even secure it in my car, in the parking lot when I go everyday.

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:26 PM.

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    Anyone who is interested in help to get cc allowed on campus should come out to the meeting at oakland U on 3/2/10 at 2pm. Even if you do not attend this school it's just the first step.

  23. #23
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    What are the rules about firearms on campus? I might want to attend.


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    Venator wrote:
    There is legislation being written as we write. The bill would include college/universities as local municipalities and place them under preemption. But it's not law yet.
    That would be nice to have exactly no arguable confusion, but I don't understand how preemption doesn't already apply in the minds of some folks. Tax money goes towards most colleges, and police patrol them. Some have legislative powers. If they aren't local units of government, neither are the East Lansing police, or the Berkley City Council.


    T Vance wrote:
    I'm in the same boat as you. It sucks, but unless you want to risk getting your firearm stolen, or being expelled from school that is the way we have to go.
    One thing I tend to do when going into a CEZ I can't OC at, is I take the slide off, lock the frame to a secure spot in my vehicle, and take the slide and magazines in with me.


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    I have a trigger lock and a safety system on my gun that renders the firearm useless when engaged, I also have a padlock for the case when I have to lock it up for work.

    I feel that all of the measures are adequate for securing my sidearm when I have to leave it in the car.

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