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GFSZ distance measurement inaccurate

D

Deek

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I agree that the law is a real piece of %$@# but, this would give the anti's something to "feel good" about. After all, they would "done something" "for the children". After all, it's generaly, IMHO, bad form, not nice and overall illegal to shoot and kill people because they made you mad. Alot of problems would be gone if kids were taught not to shoot the bully, the person who wont go out with you, the teacher that gave you a bad grade and so on. would make the law completely unnessasary.

By the way, any updates on GFSZ lawsuit?
 
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mattfish86

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The website Doug is showing you is is the official map of property boundaries produced by the county surveyor.
 
S

scorpio_vette

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mattfish86 wrote:
The website Doug is showing you is is the official map of property boundaries produced by the county surveyor.  
Click to expand...

:? *embarrassed* .......no idea how to read that map or what i'm looking for. there are no buildings and words on that map other than street names.
 
M

mattfish86

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I happen to need to to a project in computer based mapping to complete my degree in Geographic information systems.

Does INC. CHANGING LIVES WORSHIP CENTER at 4970 SWIFT AVE have a school?

Does ST JOHN'S EV LUTHERAN CONG at 4850 LAKE DR have a school?

What street do you live on?
 
Lurchiron

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mattfish86 wrote:
I happen to need to to a project in computer based mapping to complete my degree in Geographic information systems.

Does INC. CHANGING LIVES WORSHIP CENTER at 4970 SWIFT AVE have a school?

Does ST JOHN'S EV LUTHERAN CONG at 4850 LAKE DR have a school?

What street do you live on?
Click to expand...
Easy grasshopper, most folks here have a healthy respect for personal privacy; perhaps a re-phrasing?
 
S

scorpio_vette

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mattfish86 wrote:
I happen to need to to a project in computer based mapping to complete my degree in Geographic information systems. 

Does INC. CHANGING LIVES WORSHIP CENTER at 4970 SWIFT AVE have a school?

Does ST JOHN'S EV LUTHERAN CONG at 4850 LAKE DR have a school?

What street do you live on? 
Click to expand...

no to the school questions. and i live in the 53110 zip code. if you need something "a little" more specific, send me a pm. thanks.
 
Interceptor_Knight

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scorpio_vette wrote:
so i have to ask this. i see that you guys have the milwaukee GFSZ map and bunch of other talk. but i've been trying to figure out the deal with my house.

as i mentioned in another thread, i can't seem to get a direct answer.
Click to expand...
Google maps or another map program is going to get you close in measurements. You should be able to figure it out within 10 feet.
 
J

J.Gleason

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davegran wrote:
The question of where to measure from is in the Wisconsin Statutes:

From Wisconsin Statute 948.605:

This is the definition of the GFSZ
(c) “School zone” means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

This is the dictionary definition of "Grounds":
  1. The collective land areas that compose a larger area, as in the school grounds.
  2. "Collective land areas" means ALL the lands that make up the school property, including athletic fields.

So, to find the GFSZ, you measure out 1000 feet from any school property.

The real problem, as some have stated, is locating the school property line accurately. I believe that Doug has the best answer as he will be using the LEGAL location of the line, with software made to measure distances.

The whole exercise is still a pain in the A$$ for law-abiding citizens such as yourself. We are turned into potential law breakers and the children may be exposed to armed criminals with no means of defense.

Dave
Click to expand...
I disagree. This would only apply if the athletic field was attached to the same property as the school was located on. Otherwise it is merely an athletic field and nothing more. In other words if the athletic field was located on the opposite side of town from the school. It is not a GFSZ.
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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davegran wrote:
The question of where to measure from is in the Wisconsin Statutes:

From Wisconsin Statute 948.605:

This is the definition of the GFSZ
(c) “School zone” means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

This is the dictionary definition of "Grounds":
  1. The collective land areas that compose a larger area, as in the school grounds.
  2. "Collective land areas" means ALL the lands that make up the school property, including athletic fields.

So, to find the GFSZ, you measure out 1000 feet from any school property.
Click to expand...
Your first mistake was using a dictionary definition.... Wisconsin Statutes make their own definitions.....:) Athletic fields are part of the "School Premises" and are addressed seperately from school "grounds" which is where the school itself is located.

(c) “School premises” means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.
Click to expand...

 
davegran

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
davegran wrote:
The question of where to measure from is in the Wisconsin Statutes:

From Wisconsin Statute 948.605:

This is the definition of the GFSZ
(c) “School zone” means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

This is the dictionary definition of "Grounds":
  1. The collective land areas that compose a larger area, as in the school grounds.
  2. "Collective land areas" means ALL the lands that make up the school property, including athletic fields.

So, to find the GFSZ, you measure out 1000 feet from any school property.
Click to expand...
Your first mistake was using a dictionary definition.... Wisconsin Statutes make their own definitions.....:) Athletic fields are part of the "School Premises" and are addressed seperately from school "grounds" which is where the school itself is located.

(c) “School premises” means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Where do you find the statute definition of "School Grounds"? Citation?
 
S

scorpio_vette

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:
scorpio_vette wrote:
so i have to ask this. i see that you guys have the milwaukee GFSZ map and bunch of other talk. but i've been trying to figure out the deal with my house.

as i mentioned in another thread, i can't seem to get a direct answer.
Click to expand...
Google maps or another map program is going to get you close in measurements.  You should be able to figure it out within 10 feet.
Click to expand...

as i have said before, i have used google maps, google earth, etc..etc.. and depending on which you use, and depending on who you have measure it, i get different results. believe it or not, i've gotten results that different as much as a couple HUNDRED feet. how does that work??? i mean i could see if everybody agreed within 5feet. that would be acceptable. but people are disagreeing as much as 50+feet, and that is a huge difference when you are talking about being able to leave your property or not.
 
Lurchiron

Lurchiron

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scorpio_vette wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
scorpio_vette wrote:
so i have to ask this. i see that you guys have the milwaukee GFSZ map and bunch of other talk. but i've been trying to figure out the deal with my house.

as i mentioned in another thread, i can't seem to get a direct answer.
Click to expand...
Google maps or another map program is going to get you close in measurements. You should be able to figure it out within 10 feet.
Click to expand...

as i have said before, i have used google maps, google earth, etc..etc.. and depending on which you use, and depending on who you have measure it, i get different results. believe it or not, i've gotten results that different as much as a couple HUNDRED feet. how does that work??? i mean i could see if everybody agreed within 5feet. that would be acceptable. but people are disagreeing as much as 50+feet, and that is a huge difference when you are talking about being able to leave your property or not.
Click to expand...
Do you have a direct line of sight to the closest boundary, if so get out the 100' steel tape; and march it off. Unarmed the first time of course!!!
 
J

J.Gleason

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scorpio_vette wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
scorpio_vette wrote:
so i have to ask this. i see that you guys have the milwaukee GFSZ map and bunch of other talk. but i've been trying to figure out the deal with my house.

as i mentioned in another thread, i can't seem to get a direct answer.
Click to expand...
Google maps or another map program is going to get you close in measurements. You should be able to figure it out within 10 feet.
Click to expand...

as i have said before, i have used google maps, google earth, etc..etc.. and depending on which you use, and depending on who you have measure it, i get different results. believe it or not, i've gotten results that different as much as a couple HUNDRED feet. how does that work??? i mean i could see if everybody agreed within 5feet. that would be acceptable. but people are disagreeing as much as 50+feet, and that is a huge difference when you are talking about being able to leave your property or not.
Click to expand...
I have found the Google Earth measuring tool to be the most precise. In fact it has been used by governmental agencies to measure distances. It is also the tool I use to make the maps that are being used for a current court preceding that is under way.
 
davegran

davegran

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If the school grounds includes the athletic field (and that is the way it is described on the description that comes up on Doug's website) then this is what the GFSZ looks like (On the East side, the lines extend out into the lake):

[align=center]
2mys1mh.jpg


[align=left]Just my opinion.

Dave
[/align][/align]
 
J

J.Gleason

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davegran wrote:
If the school grounds includes the athletic field (and that is the way it is described on the description that comes up on Doug's website) then this is what the GFSZ looks like (On the East side, the lines extend out into the lake):

[align=center]
2mys1mh.jpg


[/align][align=left]Just my opinion.

Dave
[/align]
Click to expand...
The Athletic Field is not attached to the property on which the school is located. Therefore the athletic field is a school premises and not school grounds. I have attached a copy of a map (Below) of the school grounds ( Outlined in Yellow) and the school zone (Outlined in Red) Your home is clearly within the GFSZ, sorry. All measurements are + up to 10 feet but never less than 1000 feet.
moz-screenshot-3.png
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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davegran wrote:
If the school grounds includes the athletic field (and that is the way it is described on the description that comes up on Doug's website) then this is what the GFSZ looks like (On the East side, the lines extend out into the lake):
Click to expand...
Who's Doug and what web site are you referring to???? :?
 
Interceptor_Knight

Interceptor_Knight

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davegran wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Athletic fields are part of the "School Premises" and are addressed seperately from school "grounds" which is where the school itself is located.

(c) “School premises” means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Where do you find the statute definition of "School Grounds"? Citation?
Click to expand...

[align=left]948.61 Dangerous weapons other than firearms on school premises. (1)(c) “School premises” means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.[/align]
 
S

scorpio_vette

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J.Gleason wrote:
davegran wrote:
If the school grounds includes the athletic field (and that is the way it is described on the description that comes up on Doug's website) then this is what the GFSZ looks like (On the East side, the lines extend out into the lake):

[align=center]
2mys1mh.jpg


[/align][align=left]Just my opinion.

Dave
[/align]
Click to expand...
The Athletic Field is not attached to the property on which the school is located. Therefore the athletic field is a school premises and not school grounds. I have attached a copy of a map (Below) of the school grounds ( Outlined in Yellow) and the school zone (Outlined in Red) Your home is clearly within the GFSZ, sorry. All measurements are + up to 10 feet but never less than 1000 feet.
moz-screenshot-3.png
Click to expand...

thank you. i will add both of these to the opinions i already have so i can show them to the PD if/when they finally come up with an answer.

@J.Gleason--- i started my measurement just inside of your yellow line from the grass line. but one of my measurements covered 3/4 of my property. but at least it's within my block, so it seems that "most" opinions seem to end somewhere within that 1 block where my house is. i appreciate you mapping this out for me. i guess for now i'll just have to play it safe and carry it out of the block encased. this sucks.........approximately 7houses *rolls eyes*
 
M

mattfish86

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Nice map. But here may be some more area not covered in the school zone. The two buildings and parcels land on the south west corner of the school zone (between the main school building, golf course, south lake drive and what looks to be a track) are not part of the school. One is the city hall, the other is a waste treatment plant. At least thats what the register of deeds for Milwaukee county says. This is just a rough map, I lack the software to do it at home but if you give me a few days I could go to school and map it. The resulting school boundary would look like this, with the 1000 ft buffer radiating out.
 
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