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Thread: Macomb twp. board meeting

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    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Is anyone interested in attending the Macomb twp board meeting with me this Wednesday at 7pm? Here is the web site

    http://www.macomb-mi.gov/Minutes%20a...uary242010.pdf

    For those of you who do not remember we had an OC picnic in Macomb twp last year and we were told by the under sheriff that they were going to uphold their illegal ordinances banning firearms in parks. Aftrwards, they learned of preemption and the twp. supervisor went on record as saying they would have the ordinance repealed.

    That was last August. To date, nothing has been done and after several emails I was told that it was "put on a tickler for March". I intend to see that it is followed through on.

    These are the original articles written on the picnic.



    Firearm fans plan picnic

    Thursday, August 13, 2009
    By Frank DeFrank, Macomb Daily Staff Writer

    Picnic supply list: charcoal and lighter fluid, check.
    burgers and 'dogs, check.
    .45-caliber pistol and holster, check.

    Firearms could be as plentiful as fixin's Saturday when Michigan Open Carry holds a picnic at Macomb Corners Park in Macomb Township. Michigan Open Carry is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the legal right to carry handguns. On its Web site, the organization outlines its objectives:

    To educate and desensitize the public and members of the law enforcement community about the legality of the open carry of a handgun in public.

    To exercise a natural right to self defense using the most efficient and common tool, a handgun.

    To demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm.

    To protect our right to self-defense.

    Periodically, the group holds events to draw attention to its efforts.

    "Basically, the objective is to raise awareness … (and) to help educate the public and raise awareness regarding lawful open carry of a firearm in Michigan," said John Roshek, Southeast Regional Coordinator of Michigan Open Carry.

    Under Michigan law, handgun owners can carry their weapons openly provided the guns are in plain view, properly holstered and the owners adhere to other restrictions. They are not required to secure permits.

    That's exactly what many of those who will participate in Saturday's picnic intend to do. Roshek said the organization boasts about 520 members and he hopes a big chunk of the membership turns out Saturday.

    But carrying a firearm is not a prerequisite to attending the picnic. In fact, Roshek said, organizers hope other unarmed folks stop by for a burger and conversation. That just might dispel some myths about firearm aficionados, he said. "There's never been anybody who ran away from us," he quipped. "Generally, it (opposition) is based on fear, it's not based on fact." Roshek acknowledged some might be a little intimidated to share the picnic grounds with a group whose members strap side arms on their hips.

    On a few occasions, police have been summoned, including once when law enforcement authorities brought a special mobile command unit in response to a complaint. "I think they wasted a lot of taxpayers' dollars (to investigate) some guys with their wives and kids grilling some burgers," Roshek said.

    Macomb County Sheriff Mark Hackel said the Michigan Open Carry members are within their rights to hold a picnic in a public park, even with handguns resting against their sides. "They're correct in their interpretation of the law," the sheriff said. "They pretty much know the rules." Hackel said his department has no reason to provide additional police presence.

    The Michigan Open Carry picnic will be held beginning at noon at Macomb Corners Park, located on the north side of 25 Mile Road just west of Broughton Road, Macomb Township. For more information about the group, visit its Web site at http://www.miopencarry.org.

    Law backs right of gun group to hold picnic

    Friday, August 14, 2009
    By Frank DeFrank, Macomb Daily Staff Writer

    A Macomb Township ordinance that bans firearms in public parks caused a bit of a stir Thursday and briefly threatened a public picnic planned by a gun-rights group. But after consultations among a representative of Michigan Open Carry, township lawyers and officials and Macomb County Sheriff Mark Hackel, the picnic at Macomb Corners Park will proceed as planned Saturday.

    "They're good to go," said Mark Grabow, Macomb Township supervisor.

    The controversy centered on the township ordinance and a state law. Township officials initially cited their ordinance as the prevailing law, which likely would have resulted either in cancellation of the picnic or the specter of deputy sheriffs writing tickets to all who attended. But John Roshek, Southeast Regional Coordinator of Michigan Open Carry, brought to the attention of local officials a Michigan law that pre-empts local governments from imposing restrictions on firearm possession. The law is based on a 2003 case involving the city of Ferndale decided by the Michigan Court of Appeals.

    After a flurry of telephone calls and discussions among the principals, Macomb County Sheriff Mark Hackel delivered the final verdict late Thursday afternoon. "They (Michigan Open Carry) are right," the sheriff said. "The group … can carry their guns."

    Roshek was confident the state law would prevail, but he said he was pleased the confusion could be resolved in a civil manner. "We're a non-confrontational group," Roshek said. "We're not out to cause any problems." Roshek also said the uncertainty of public officials underscores the reason his group holds events like the picnic: to educate the public about Michigan gun laws.

    "This is a perfect example," he said. Grabow said township officials will revisit the ordinance and make any changes necessary to comply with the law. "We'll rectify it so we're in compliance with the court of appeals ruling," Grabow said. Michigan Open Carry will begin its picnic at noon.

  2. #2
    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    What time is the meeting?
    United we STAND!

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    7 p.m.

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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    I will try to get the blessing of my better half.
    United we STAND!

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    looks likeI can make it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Sucks. I really wanted to go to this but the schedule just doesnt work.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    I will be there for sure.

  9. #9
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    Where is this at specifically & can we OC there &video tape it?

  10. #10
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    It is in the Macomb twp center building, I plan on OC'ing. It is a public meeting, you can video tape.

    I will probably be there a few minutes late. Most likely I will be there for 7:30 at the latest.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    I thought the meeting went very well. There were a lot of attendees so many of the residents became aware of OC.

    Thanks to sprinklerguy +1, scot623, mikestilly for coming out. Sprinklerguy, scot623 and I addressed the board and made our point. Mike videotaped the event and is working on getting it up on you tube. We will have this on MOC's homepage as well very soon.

    On a side note, I was pulled out of the room by a Macomb county leo within 2 minutes of entering the meeting. I was lectured on how this wasn't a good idea and I should cover up, I politely declined. I was also told that I was probably in violation of the local ordinance, to which I replied that I know all about it and that is why I was there. I gave the officer the story as to what happened and excused myself to rejoin the meeting.

    I head the voice news paper interviewed sprinklerguy. Also on my way out of the meeting some residents asked me for pamphlets as well as that LEO who originally declined it when I offered it to him in the beginning.

    Thanks everyone! Tonight was a victory!

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    :celebrate:celebrate
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    He shoots, he scores! Excellent work guys!springerdave.

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    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
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    WTG guys....Work well done!! Can't wait to see it on the MOC youtube channel!:celebrate:celebrate
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

  15. #15
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Macomb Twp records and uploads the video to their site for all to view. This usually takes until Friday afternoon following a Wednesday meeting but when available can be viewed here. http://macomb-mi.pegcentral.com/

    Youtube videos

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGQF9XLsvmg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUY3lcViOHc

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 01:22 PM.

  17. #17
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    Being my second time addressing a city coucil/twp. board, I have to say I quite like it. I am looking forward to speaking again if need be and getting progressively better. Please keep searching your own cities ordinances so we can get out there to correct them when they are outdated.

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    you are a good public speaker. I like how you answered their questions/concerns....ie: "don't you have to carry concealed?" or well, we are not going to enforce the illegal ordinance
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  19. #19
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    My video is up on the Youtube channel. Sorry about the beginning just realized I needed to replace this DV tape.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/OpenCarryMI

  20. #20
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Great job guys.

  21. #21
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    :celebrate
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  22. #22
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Hopefully this will get them moving on the issue. If not we will be there for the next one.

    Thanks for posting that guys!

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    Good job guys, The only criticism would be please work on not saying "umm" so much, just take a pause while you collect yourself mentally.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

  24. #24
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    Yea, I'm not sure what happened to me on that. I think I was still focusing on the LEO lecture I received 5 minutes before that. Threw off my train of thought.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Meeting is now up on Macomb Twp's website.

    We are public comments A,G, and H

    Joe Biondo a citizen who views our site and came out to support us is public comment J

    http://macomb-mi.pegcentral.com/play...44caa1ce7f65ce

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