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Thread: You CANNOT OC in IN with a MI CPL

  1. #1
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    My e-mail to the Indiana State Police:

    Your Name: Aaron *********

    Your Email: *********@gmail.com

    Subject: CPL Reciprocation

    To Whom It May Concern:

    IC 35-47-2-21 states: "[...]
    (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

    Can you clarify what is meant by the phrase "according to the terms thereof"?

    Specifically, I am a Michigan CPL holder inquiring as to the rights I am provided when carrying in Indiana.

    * Can I open carry with a Michigan CPL?
    * Am I restricted by Indiana AND Michigan pistol free zones, or just Indiana?

    Please elaborate on these topics.

    Best regards,
    Aaron *********
    ISP Response:
    You are held to the restrictions of your license in your home state. Example: if you are issued a concealed carry permit in your home state, then the weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in the vehicle in your home state, then you cannot do so in Indiana.

    Indiana does not regulate in establishments selling alcohol. If the law in your state is related to the terms under which you were issued your license, then you cannot do so in Indiana either. If you want to know that, then you need to contact your licensing authorities, not us.

    Lt. Jerry A. Berkey
    Indiana State Police
    Records Division, Rm 302 100 N. Senate Avenue--IGCN
    Indianapolis, IN 46204
    317-232-8263 MW2498
    This spells it out pretty clearly to me. You are basically restricted to the laws of BOTH states while in Indiana, with the added rule that a CPL only allows you to carry concealed in Indiana, not OC. Thoughts?

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    Get a Pennsylvania LTC. It costs $26, no training classes required, and Centre County will have it to you in less than 2 weeks.

    http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/l...pplication.asp

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    Wait, is that legal? I mean.... They'll issue me, a Michigan resident, a LTC and it will be valid here in Michigan because of reciprocity? That doesn't sound right... Please tell me its true.

    Oh wait... I need to send them a copy of my resident CPL

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    You'll need to check Michigan's laws to see if its valid for you in Michigan, but Indiana will honor a non-resident PA license when you're across the border.

    On second thought, Michigan probably requires residents to have a Michigan CPL as they do not recognize non-resident licenses. The PA license is valid in MI for PA residents, but I know that I cannot carry in Michigan because I am an Illinois resident.

    Check both state's laws at www.handgunlaw.us

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    Yeah, yeah... I see what you're saying. Indiana doesn't specify residence, so what I can do is get a Pennsylvania LTC and present it while open-carrying in Indiana. A good way to cover my ass. I just might do this.

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    IANAL...but

    I call bs on this. I would consult an attorney, not the ISP. I just don't see how LE can be expected to know the restrictions on an out of state permit/license when there are a lot of them that don't understand, or areignorant on IN LTCH laws. Plus how would they charge you??

    Example: Ohio prohibits carrying into an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on premises. In IN this is legal. How would they charge a personcarrying in a bar in INon an Ohio CCW with a violation of another states laws?
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    I agree with Beau, that don't sound right. You need to do some more checking.

    Usually, you are to comply with the laws of the state you are visiting. I know that someone from Ky with a CC permit can carry CC or OC while in TN. Ky doesn't require a permit to OC, while TN does.

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    ooopps.... double tap

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    Beau wrote:
    IANAL...but

    I call bs on this. I would consult an attorney, not the ISP. I just don't see how LE can be expected to know the restrictions on an out of state permit/license when there are a lot of them that don't understand, or areignorant on IN LTCH laws. Plus how would they charge you??

    Example: Ohio prohibits carrying into an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on premises. In IN this is legal. How would they charge a personcarrying in a bar in INon an Ohio CCW with a violation of another states laws?
    I am consulting the Indiana Attorney General.

    They wouldn't be holding you to another states laws. They would be holding you to an Indiana law which states, in part:

    [...] (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]
    I would imagine that if you went to court over it, they would be more than happy to cite this, and then through this, the laws of the state you were from.

    But I don't think your example would happen. I'm sure if you are following all of IN law, they wouldn't question. Its when you shoot somebody in the bar, even in self-defense with a dozen witness supporting you, that they whip out this law and nab you with a felony.

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    So where does IN stand if my home permit allows me to carry it around in my hand? Or taped to my forehead?

    Yea, BS here. Do not rely on legal opinions of LEO's on carry matters.

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    horneraa wrote:
    My e-mail to the Indiana State Police:

    Your Name: Aaron *********

    Your Email: *********@gmail.com

    Subject: CPL Reciprocation

    To Whom It May Concern:

    IC 35-47-2-21 states: "[...]
    (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

    Can you clarify what is meant by the phrase "according to the terms thereof"?

    Specifically, I am a Michigan CPL holder inquiring as to the rights I am provided when carrying in Indiana.

    * Can I open carry with a Michigan CPL?
    * Am I restricted by Indiana AND Michigan pistol free zones, or just Indiana?

    Please elaborate on these topics.

    Best regards,
    Aaron *********
    ISP Response:
    You are held to the restrictions of your license in your home state. Example: if you are issued a concealed carry permit in your home state, then the weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in the vehicle in your home state, then you cannot do so in Indiana.

    Indiana does not regulate in establishments selling alcohol. If the law in your state is related to the terms under which you were issued your license, then you cannot do so in Indiana either. If you want to know that, then you need to contact your licensing authorities, not us.

    Lt. Jerry A. Berkey
    Indiana State Police
    Records Division, Rm 302 100 N. Senate Avenue--IGCN
    Indianapolis, IN 46204
    317-232-8263 MW2498
    This spells it out pretty clearly to me. You are basically restricted to the laws of BOTH states while in Indiana, with the added rule that a CPL only allows you to carry concealed in Indiana, not OC. Thoughts?
    Again, why are you asking the police for legal advice? Why would you think they will give you correct advice?

    Your inquiry needs to be YOUR inquiry. What does the relevant reciprocity statute in Indiana say?

    regardless, the Michigan Concealed Pistol Permit does not in fact require concealed crry, in fact, CPL holders are equired under Michigan law to OPEN CARRY in banks, hospitals, and many other places - see chart in the Michigan forums.

    And no, forign state laws do not follow you into other states - nonesense.

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    I didn't ask any old LEO, I e-mailed the HQ to get a general position on the issue. This is what I got. Also, I did say I am consulting with the Attorney General. I'll post again when the e-mail comes back from that office.

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    Check again. Ex., SC does not allow open carry nor caRRY IN RESTAURANTS THAT SERVE ALCOHOL. If you have a IN permit could you open carry here and carry in these restaurants? Of course not. TX

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    Interesting equal rights violation here. Since Michigan issues a Concealed Carry license/permit, the only way Indiana will honor such is if the individual from Michigan carries concealed. However, since Pennsylvania issues a License to Carry Firearms, which really doesn't have any restrictions, the individual from Pennsylvania can carry either openly or concealed.

    Apparently in Indiana a visitor from Pennsylvania has more rights and privileges than a visitor from Michigan.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    Interesting equal rights violation here. Since Michigan issues a Concealed Carry license/permit, the only way Indiana will honor such is if the individual from Michigan carries concealed. However, since Pennsylvania issues a License to Carry Firearms, which really doesn't have any restrictions, the individual from Pennsylvania can carry either openly or concealed.

    Apparently in Indiana a visitor from Pennsylvania has more rights and privileges than a visitor from Michigan.
    Therein lies the problem. There are no restictions on Michigan's CPL's to carry concealed in the State. Therefore, a resident of Michigan with a CPL can OC or CC in Indiana. Far too many LEO's, especially in Michigan, think the CPL requires us to CC--there's no Michigan statute whatsoever that requires CPL holders to do so.

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    Can you carry at the state fair in Michigan on your CPL?

    I bet they'd defecate themselves if you tried to carry at the Indiana state fair with a Michigan CPL.

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    cce1302 wrote:
    Can you carry at the state fair in Michigan on your CPL?

    I bet they'd defecate themselves if you tried to carry at the Indiana state fair with a Michigan CPL.
    I'm sure many do, at least CC anyways. It's not statutorily prohibited in Michigan like it is in Indiana. I've never been toa Michigan State Fair but I'm sure it's posted for no firearms--just a guess on my part.

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    This should not be much of a discussion. Of course you follow the laws of the state you carry in!!

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    This should not be much of a discussion. Of course you follow the laws of the state you carry in!!
    But when in State "A" you shouldn't also have to follow the laws of State "B".

    Either the laws of State "A" apply uniformly to everyone in the state, whether residents or visitors, or they do not, in which case Equal Protection applies.


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    SORRY, i MEANT YOU FOLLOW THE LAWS of thestate you are visiting.If you are from STATE A and visit STATE B you carry according to thelaws of State B TX

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    Roger, Dodger, Over and Out.

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    Beau wrote:
    IANAL...but

    I call bs on this. I would consult an attorney, not the ISP. I just don't see how LE can be expected to know the restrictions on an out of state permit/license when there are a lot of them that don't understand, or areignorant on IN LTCH laws. Plus how would they charge you??

    Example: Ohio prohibits carrying into an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on premises. In IN this is legal. How would they charge a personcarrying in a bar in INon an Ohio CCW with a violation of another states laws?
    I don't think they would have to know the other states laws, just be able to read what it says on the lic/permit. ie if it says concealed, not valid in bars, or I don't know if any other states have a target/hunting license like IN does but if they do and it says on it hunting/target it would only be valid for hunting/target. Or I think IL issues a permit for armed security guards but they are only allowed to carry when on the job. If it says for work only well....

    Kinda like another states Drivers lic, IN honors them but if it says glasses on it you have to wear them here in IN. Or if it has a restriction for daytime only.

    For charging you? I'd say they could probably charge you with carrying without a valid license.

  23. #23
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    with the penn. permit to carry, a question; what states do they reciprocity with (offhand)? any other states as easy to get as penn.'s?

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    "according to the terms thereof"

    This seems to be in regards to the terms of validity of the state of issue. Were the training requirements met, was the background check done, were the fees paid, was it properly renewed, ETC..

    The laws ofone state do not apply within the borders of another state.

    I call BS as well.

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    McX wrote:
    with the penn. permit to carry, a question; what states do they reciprocity with (offhand)? any other states as easy to get as penn.'s
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf, States in purple/light blue honor it, the orangeish/peach ones only honor it if your a resident of PA.

    ETA Florida isn't too hard, you have to have training but IN hunter safety course qualifies for it.

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