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You CANNOT OC in IN with a MI CPL

Timjoebillybob

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Beau wrote:
IANAL...but

I call bs on this. I would consult an attorney, not the ISP. I just don't see how LE can be expected to know the restrictions on an out of state permit/license when there are a lot of them that don't understand, or areignorant on IN LTCH laws. Plus how would they charge you??

Example: Ohio prohibits carrying into an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on premises. In IN this is legal. How would they charge a personcarrying in a bar in INon an Ohio CCW with a violation of another states laws?
I don't think they would have to know the other states laws, just be able to read what it says on the lic/permit. ie if it says concealed, not valid in bars, or I don't know if any other states have a target/hunting license like IN does but if they do and it says on it hunting/target it would only be valid for hunting/target. Or I think IL issues a permit for armed security guards but they are only allowed to carry when on the job. If it says for work only well....

Kinda like another states Drivers lic, IN honors them but if it says glasses on it you have to wear them here in IN. Or if it has a restriction for daytime only.

For charging you? I'd say they could probably charge you with carrying without a valid license.
 
M

McX

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with the penn. permit to carry, a question; what states do they reciprocity with (offhand)? any other states as easy to get as penn.'s?
 

reefteach

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"according to the terms thereof"

This seems to be in regards to the terms of validity of the state of issue. Were the training requirements met, was the background check done, were the fees paid, was it properly renewed, ETC..

The laws ofone state do not apply within the borders of another state.

I call BS as well.
 

Timjoebillybob

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McX wrote:
with the penn. permit to carry, a question; what states do they reciprocity with (offhand)? any other states as easy to get as penn.'s
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf, States in purple/light blue honor it, the orangeish/peach ones only honor it if your a resident of PA.

ETA Florida isn't too hard, you have to have training but IN hunter safety course qualifies for it.
 

Timjoebillybob

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reefteach wrote:
"according to the terms thereof"

This seems to be in regards to the terms of validity of the state of issue. Were the training requirements met, was the background check done, were the fees paid, was it properly renewed, ETC..

The laws ofone state do not apply within the borders of another state.
Depending, to use the Drivers license analogy again. I think in IN you can get a drivers license without eyeglass restrictions if you have 20/60 or better vision(don't quote me on that), if your from state Y that says you have to have 20/40 vision or your required to wear glasses. If you vision was lets say 20/50 but your license had the glasses restriction on it, would it be valid in IN if you weren't wearing your glasses? Or if your license restricted you to daylight hours (as stated on it) because of the requirements in state Y would it be valid in IN after dark?
 

Timjoebillybob

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NavyLT wrote:
Timjoebillybob wrote:
reefteach wrote:
"according to the terms thereof"

This seems to be in regards to the terms of validity of the state of issue. Were the training requirements met, was the background check done, were the fees paid, was it properly renewed, ETC..

The laws ofone state do not apply within the borders of another state.
Depending, to use the Drivers license analogy again. I think in IN you can get a drivers license without eyeglass restrictions if you have 20/60 or better vision(don't quote me on that), if your from state Y that says you have to have 20/40 vision or your required to wear glasses. If you vision was lets say 20/50 but your license had the glasses restriction on it, would it be valid in IN if you weren't wearing your glasses? Or if your license restricted you to daylight hours (as stated on it) because of the requirements in state Y would it be valid in IN after dark?
Even easier than that, if I am from State X with a statewide speed limit on highways of 55 mph, does that mean I legally have to travel no more than 55 mph in State Y which has a 75 mph statewide speed limit? Of course not. The answer from the state police was B.S.
Depends, does State X have a restriction on the license itself that it is not valid at speeds higher than 55? If so then yes, you are required by the terms of the license to not drive faster than 55.

If the mythical free State of Z, which has thrown off all un-Constitutional Federal restrictions allows the carry of firearms on commercial aircraft that take off and land in their state, as long as someone has a license that they recognize according to the terms thereof, would my IN LTCH be valid on aircraft there? Nope because it states on it "not valid on commercial aircraft". Or for a slightly less mythical example, lets say I don't have a personal protection LTCH, just a hunting and target one, would that be valid in FL for concealed carry for personal protection?
 

Yooper

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Mike wrote:
Again, why are you asking the police for legal advice?  Why would you think they will give you correct advice?

Your inquiry needs to be YOUR inquiry.  What does the relevant reciprocity statute in Indiana say?

regardless, the Michigan Concealed Pistol Permit does not in fact require concealed crry, in fact, CPL holders are equired under Michigan law to OPEN CARRY in banks, hospitals, and many other places - see chart in the Michigan forums.

And no, forign state laws do not follow you into other states - nonesense.

Some correction involved. We CAN carry concealed into banks, but need a CPL to OC in banks. OC in banks w/o a CPL is a no-no.

Second, prior to Michigan going shall-issue in 2001, the law said (not exact, but as close as I can recall) "All privileges granted to you by your home state will be granted to you in Michigan"

So if your state had allowed you to CC in banks, you could CC in MI banks, but if your state didn't allow it, you couldn't.

So, not knowing the IN law, it is possible for a law of that type to exist. It existed in Michigan for many decades up until 2001.
 

tcmech

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So if you are visiting Indiana from Vermont you can carry openly, or concealed with nothing but proof of residence in Vermont?

I will check this out the next time I come to visit my relatives in Indiana. I am currently a Virginia resident, and here we need no permit to openly carry. I do have a Virginia CHP but somehow I think I will need to have the state police on speed dial and be willing to show that I do have permit.
 

dadpharm

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Dont believe thats true. You follow laws of the state you visit. With a SC permit can I carry in Chicago or Il. Of course not. I have written In Attorney GENERAL for clarificcation and will, post their response. TX
 

dadpharm

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PS my SC permit just says CWP and does not list where I can carry or under what circumstanes TX
 

dadpharm

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hI I received an answer from the state police in IN. My permit waS ISSUED UNDER sc LAW,HOWEVER WHILE IN iN. i AM SUBJECT TO iN. LAW. hOPE THIS HELPS. TX Frank
 

Golden Eagle

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Instead of a drivers license comparison how about a gun law to gun law.
33.gif


An Indiana permit holder in Indiana can carry in a bar but not a police station. Those two laws are opposite here in Michigan. IMO that same person visiting MI couldenter a police station to say ask for directions but I would expect any Michigan LEO to charge that same personif in a bar. I won't take my gun into an Indiana police station. Just saying I don't think an IN LEO would enforce MI law any more than a MI LEO would would enforce IN law. So if OC is legal in IN with a permit I would think I'm safe.

Again just IMO.
 

neestle

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I wanted to add my two cents on the issue, in the form of a thought experiment. Let's assume that the crap e-mail from ISP is actually the way the law works in IN.


Now imagine that OP does something that violates MI carry rules, but not IN, like say, carrying in a bar. Our standard 911 call from a hystericalignoramus goes in, officers respond, and they arrive and demand his license and permit (which OP provides). They pow-wow in front of their cars and, somehow, know that he has violated MI carry laws. Maybe it's on the license, or maybe they are uber-geniuses well-versed in the minutia of MI gun laws.


So they... what? Charge him with what? There's no law in Indianato charge him with. Carrying without a license? He has a valid license, with the same legal weight as an IN license. He can't be charged in MI, because they wouldn't have jurisdiction; the incident didn't occur within their borders.


The worst case scenario would be them reporting a violation of the license to the MI license board or bureau or whatever its fancy title is, and he might, theoretically, get it revoked back home. That seems unlikely.

It seems more plausible to methat the clause "will be recognized according to the terms thereof"applies to the qualifications of the person and theexpiration date, etc. so that a person who might be ineligible for an IN license would still be able to carry in IN so long as they had a valid out of state license.

For example, I have a blemish on my record which might disqualify me in certain states, but so long as they have reciprocity, my IN permit is valid there. This would seem to keep with the "full faith and credit" spirit the IN law is meant to embody.
 

SpringerXDacp

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neestle wrote:
I wanted to add my two cents on the issue, in the form of a thought experiment. Let's assume that the crap e-mail from ISP is actually the way the law works in IN.


Now imagine that OP does something that violates MI carry rules, but not IN, like say, carrying in a bar. Our standard 911 call from a hystericalignoramus goes in, officers respond, and they arrive and demand his license and permit (which OP provides). They pow-wow in front of their cars and, somehow, know that he has violated MI carry laws. Maybe it's on the license, or maybe they are uber-geniuses well-versed in the minutia of MI gun laws.


So they... what? Charge him with what? There's no law in Indianato charge him with. Carrying without a license? He has a valid license, with the same legal weight as an IN license. He can't be charged in MI, because they wouldn't have jurisdiction; the incident didn't occur within their borders.


The worst case scenario would be them reporting a violation of the license to the MI license board or bureau or whatever its fancy title is, and he might, theoretically, get it revoked back home. That seems unlikely.

It seems more plausible to methat the clause "will be recognized according to the terms thereof"applies to the qualifications of the person and theexpiration date, etc. so that a person who might be ineligible for an IN license would still be able to carry in IN so long as they had a valid out of state license.

For example, I have a blemish on my record which might disqualify me in certain states, but so long as they have reciprocity, my IN permit is valid there. This would seem to keep with the "full faith and credit" spirit the IN law is meant to embody.
The Gun Free Zones (GFZ) are listed on the back of all Michigan CPL's.
 

dadpharm

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hI Also in SC the laws says you follow SC law,not thelaw from the state you have a license if you are visiting SC. Tx
 

Grapeshot

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Golden Eagle wrote:
Instead of a drivers license comparison how about a gun law to gun law.
33.gif


An Indiana permit holder in Indiana can carry in a bar but not a police station. Those two laws are opposite here in Michigan. IMO that same person visiting MI couldenter a police station to say ask for directions but I would expect any Michigan LEO to charge that same personif in a bar. I won't take my gun into an Indiana police station. Just saying I don't think an IN LEO would enforce MI law any more than a MI LEO would would enforce IN law. So if OC is legal in IN with a permit I would think I'm safe.

Again just IMO.
It is simple - you obey the laws of the state in which you presently stand.

From what state your permit originates, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Same applies to all conduct - don't care where you live - where ever you find yourself, you are responsible to know and follow the rules/laws of that state.

Yata hey
 
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