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You CANNOT OC in IN with a MI CPL

H

horneraa

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My e-mail to the Indiana State Police:

Your Name: Aaron *********

Your Email: *********@gmail.com

Subject: CPL Reciprocation

To Whom It May Concern:

IC 35-47-2-21 states: "[...]
(b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

Can you clarify what is meant by the phrase "according to the terms thereof"?

Specifically, I am a Michigan CPL holder inquiring as to the rights I am provided when carrying in Indiana.

* Can I open carry with a Michigan CPL?
* Am I restricted by Indiana AND Michigan pistol free zones, or just Indiana?

Please elaborate on these topics.

Best regards,
Aaron *********
Click to expand...
ISP Response:
You are held to the restrictions of your license in your home state. Example: if you are issued a concealed carry permit in your home state, then the weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in the vehicle in your home state, then you cannot do so in Indiana.

Indiana does not regulate in establishments selling alcohol. If the law in your state is related to the terms under which you were issued your license, then you cannot do so in Indiana either. If you want to know that, then you need to contact your licensing authorities, not us.

Lt. Jerry A. Berkey
Indiana State Police
Records Division, Rm 302 100 N. Senate Avenue--IGCN
Indianapolis, IN 46204
317-232-8263 MW2498
Click to expand...
This spells it out pretty clearly to me. You are basically restricted to the laws of BOTH states while in Indiana, with the added rule that a CPL only allows you to carry concealed in Indiana, not OC. You would have to get an Indiana License To Carry a Handgun (LTCH). Thoughts?
 
eastmeyers

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Sounds like an Anti. I've never herd of being held to the law of state A while in state B. What would they charge you with, lol. Anyways how about you email the Attorney General of IN.
 
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horneraa

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zigziggityzoo wrote:
The CPL allows you to carry openly as well in MI, and in more places than without a CPL.
Click to expand...
Michigan Law in general allows you to open carry, and restricts the concealed carry, of a firearm. The CPL only allows you to CC.

eastmeyers wrote:
Sounds like an Anti. I've never herd of being held to the law of state A while in state B. What would they charge you with, lol.
Click to expand...
You're not. You're being held to Indiana law, which states: "[...] (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

In this case, State B is legally mandating that you are held to the laws of State A.

EDIT: I'll send the same/similar letter to the IN AG right now, but I'm more worried about whether or not I'll get arrested, not the subsequent lawsuit. I'd rather avoid the former and thus automatically the latter, instead of the latter alone.
 
Big Gay Al

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horneraa wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
The CPL allows you to carry openly as well in MI, and in more places than without a CPL.
Click to expand...
Michigan Law in general allows you to open carry, and restricts the concealed carry, of a firearm. The CPL only allows you to CC.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's incorrect. If you have a CPL, you can OC in places where you can't CC, such as schools, taverns and other Pistol Free Zones, (except Casino's, they're governed by a different law.) Without the CPL, you can't OC on school grounds.
 
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zigziggityzoo

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horneraa wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
The CPL allows you to carry openly as well in MI, and in more places than without a CPL.
Click to expand...
Michigan Law in general allows you to open carry, and restricts the concealed carry, of a firearm. The CPL only allows you to CC.
Click to expand...

The CPL also allows you to carry openly in certain establishments. See MCL 750.234d.
 
H

horneraa

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Big Gay Al wrote:
horneraa wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
The CPL allows you to carry openly as well in MI, and in more places than without a CPL.
Click to expand...
Michigan Law in general allows you to open carry, and restricts the concealed carry, of a firearm. The CPL only allows you to CC.
Click to expand...
Actually, that's incorrect. If you have a CPL, you can OC in places where you can't CC, such as schools, taverns and such. Without the CPL, you can't OC on school grounds.
Click to expand...
You are correct, but this isn't a right granted by the CPL itself. This derives from MCL 750.234d which provides an exception for MI CPL holders in those Pistol Free Zones. The CPL, in MI law, only allows you the right to carry concealed. They relate to the same topic, but it is wrong to assume that they can be clumped together in this manner.
 
eastmeyers

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horneraa wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
The CPL allows you to carry openly as well in MI, and in more places than without a CPL.
Click to expand...
Michigan Law in general allows you to open carry, and restricts the concealed carry, of a firearm. The CPL only allows you to CC.

eastmeyers wrote:
Sounds like an Anti. I've never herd of being held to the law of state A while in state B. What would they charge you with, lol.
Click to expand...
You're not. You're being held to Indiana law, which states: "[...] (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

In this case, State B is legally mandating that you are held to the laws of State A.

EDIT: I'll send the same/similar letter to the IN AG right now, but I'm more worried about whether or not I'll get arrested, not the subsequent lawsuit. I'd rather avoid the former and thus automatically the latter, instead of the latter alone.
Click to expand...

Get the email throm the AGs office saying your legal, keep it in your back pocket. The AG is the #1 LEO in the state, I don't see any LEO arresting you while you have a letter from the AG saying your legal. Well they would be dumb for duing so...

God luck, God Bless!
 
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Preliminary response from the Indiana Attorney General:

from Constituent <CConstituent@atg.in.gov>
to Aaron ****** <********@gmail.com>
date Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:51 PM

subject RE: CPL Reciprocation

Thank you for your email. The Indiana State Police have all the information you need, but I do know that Indiana honors licenses issued in Michigan. You may call Edith Hendricks with the ISP at 317-232-8245

[line]
From: Aaron ******
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:37 PM
To: Constituent Subject: CPL Reciprocation

To Whom It May Concern:

IC 35-47-2-21 states:
"[...] (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

Can you clarify what is meant by the phrase "according to the terms thereof"?

Specifically, I am a Michigan CPL holder inquiring as to the rights I am provided when carrying in Indiana.

* Can I open carry with a Michigan CPL?
* Am I restricted by Indiana AND Michigan pistol free zones, or just Indiana?

Please elaborate on these topics.

Best regards,
Aaron R. Horner
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I'm gonna respond with something a little more assertive to make sure I get an answer out of 'em.
 
Bronson

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A friend of mine was going to a convention in IN and was told the same thing...IA honors MI permits and you are bound by MI laws while in IN. I too thought this was odd because the IN police would have to know ALL the carry laws from ALL the states. Doesn't seem workable to me.

Bronson
 
Venator

Venator

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horneraa wrote:
My e-mail to the Indiana State Police:

Your Name: Aaron *********

Your Email: *********@gmail.com

Subject: CPL Reciprocation

To Whom It May Concern:

IC 35-47-2-21 states: "[...]
(b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana. [...]"

Can you clarify what is meant by the phrase "according to the terms thereof"?

Specifically, I am a Michigan CPL holder inquiring as to the rights I am provided when carrying in Indiana.

* Can I open carry with a Michigan CPL?
* Am I restricted by Indiana AND Michigan pistol free zones, or just Indiana?

Please elaborate on these topics.

Best regards,
Aaron *********
Click to expand...
ISP Response:
You are held to the restrictions of your license in your home state. Example: if you are issued a concealed carry permit in your home state, then the weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in the vehicle in your home state, then you cannot do so in Indiana.

Indiana does not regulate in establishments selling alcohol. If the law in your state is related to the terms under which you were issued your license, then you cannot do so in Indiana either. If you want to know that, then you need to contact your licensing authorities, not us.

Lt. Jerry A. Berkey
Indiana State Police
Records Division, Rm 302 100 N. Senate Avenue--IGCN
Indianapolis, IN 46204
317-232-8263 MW2498
Click to expand...
This spells it out pretty clearly to me. You are basically restricted to the laws of BOTH states while in Indiana, with the added rule that a CPL only allows you to carry concealed in Indiana, not OC. You would have to get an Indiana License To Carry a Handgun (LTCH). Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Previously posted on another thread (Do a "non resident" search) I have an email from the Indiana State Police that you can OC or CC with a Michigan CPL in Indiana. So you are okay. Since Michigan allows both OC and CC with a CPL you are not breaking Michigan law by OCing in Indiana.
 
H

horneraa

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Venator wrote:
Previously posted on another thread (Do a "non resident" search) I have an email from the Indiana State Police that you can OC or CC with a Michigan CPL in Indiana. So you are okay. Since Michigan allows both OC and CC with a CPL you are not breaking Michigan law by OCing in Indiana.
Click to expand...
That's all well and good, but I have a letter stating that you can only conceal carry with a CPL. Whose letter wins?
 
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horneraa

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T Vance wrote:
But YOUR letter states "You are held to the restrictions of your license in your home state. Example: if you are issued a concealed carry permit in your home state, then the weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in the vehicle in your home state, then you cannot do so in Indiana".

Michigan allows CC and OC, so if you agree with the letter you received than you can OC in Indiana with a CPL.

He sounds like an Anti-OCer. He also thinks (or is making you think) that if you have your CPL then you MUST carry it concealed. That is NOT true for Michigan.

Also, OCing is legal in Indiana as far as I know.
Click to expand...
The key words present there are "of your license". Not the body of laws relevant to firearms, but those relevant to your license. The exception clause for CPL holders in 750.234d is not a privilege granted by your CPL, but rather an exception of the OC laws for CPL holders. There is a key difference there.

I'm still waiting on a positive response from the Indiana Attorney General, but I'm confident that you can't OC in Indiana with a MI CPL.

And yes, OCing in Indiana is perfectly legal for Indiana LTCH holders.
 
Venator

Venator

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horneraa wrote:
Venator wrote:
Previously posted on another thread (Do a "non resident" search) I have an email from the Indiana State Police that you can OC or CC with a Michigan CPL in Indiana. So you are okay. Since Michigan allows both OC and CC with a CPL you are not breaking Michigan law by OCing in Indiana.
Click to expand...
That's all well and good, but I have a letter stating that you can only conceal carry with a CPL. Whose letter wins?
Click to expand...
What are you daft. Michigan's permit allows OC so under your interpretation of what some Indiana cops states you can OC in Indiana with a Michigan CPL. Your thread title is wrong, plain and simple.
 
Venator

Venator

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horneraa wrote:
T Vance wrote:
But YOUR letter states "You are held to the restrictions of your license in your home state. Example: if you are issued a concealed carry permit in your home state, then the weapon must be concealed in Indiana. If you cannot carry on your person in the vehicle in your home state, then you cannot do so in Indiana".

Michigan allows CC and OC, so if you agree with the letter you received than you can OC in Indiana with a CPL.

He sounds like an Anti-OCer. He also thinks (or is making you think) that if you have your CPL then you MUST carry it concealed. That is NOT true for Michigan.

Also, OCing is legal in Indiana as far as I know.
Click to expand...
The key words present there are "of your license". Not the body of laws relevant to firearms, but those relevant to your license. The exception clause for CPL holders in 750.234d is not a privilege granted by your CPL, but rather an exception of the OC laws for CPL holders. There is a key difference there.

I'm still waiting on a positive response from the Indiana Attorney General, but I'm confident that you can't OC in Indiana with a MI CPL.

And yes, OCing in Indiana is perfectly legal for Indiana LTCH holders.
Click to expand...

Again your are just plain wrong in your interpretation of the Indiana law. Many Michiganders OC in Indiana with no problem.



[font="Verdana, sans-serif"]Dear Mr. Jeffs:[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]

[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]Indiana honors all other states handgun license while visiting or passing through our state. Our law does not state that your weapon has to be concealed or unconcealed. Being concealeddoes not draw attention to you or make people feel uneasy. You may check this web site for more information. [/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]http://www.in.gov/isp[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"] and go under firearms to see what it has. Also, this web site: [/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/index.html[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]
[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]If you have any other questions, please let us know.[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]
[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]Thanks,[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]
[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]Sandy Stark Indiana State Police Firearms Section Indiana Government Center North 100 N Senate Ave [/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]
[/font][font="Verdana, sans-serif"]Indianapolis, IN 46204 317-232-8264[/font]
 
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