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Brandishing question...

B

bmeldrum

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
202
Location
Lehi, Utah, USA
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So I was watching the news the other day and it talked about some proposed changes up on the hill, i believe in reference to HB 78, it was talking about brandishing... saying that it would allow permit holders to open their jackets etc...

so i'm just curious can someone clarify brandishing? I've always understood it as drawing your weapon and waving it around menacingly, or driving down the road & waving it at passing cars. So the act oflifting ones shirt or jacket could be considered brandishing? (What happens if my jacket falls open accidentlyam I quilty? or is it more for situations that are threatening?)

Maybe some of you can clarify this a little for me...

bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.
n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.


Utah Code
Title 76 Utah Criminal Code
Chapter 10 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, Welfare, and Morals
Section 506 Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.

76-10-506. Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.
Every person, except those persons described in Section 76-10-503, who, not in necessary self defense in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any dangerous weapon in an angry and threatening manner or unlawfully uses the same in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
 
N

Nuttycomputer

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
65
Location
West Jordan, Utah, USA
imported post

bmeldrum wrote:
So I was watching the news the other day and it talked about some proposed changes up on the hill, i believe in reference to HB 78, it was talking about brandishing... saying that it would allow permit holders to open their jackets etc...

so i'm just curious can someone clarify brandishing? I've always understood it as drawing your weapon and waving it around menacingly, or driving down the road & waving it at passing cars. So the act oflifting ones shirt or jacket could be considered brandishing? (What happens if my jacket falls open accidentlyam I quilty? or is it more for situations that are threatening?)

Maybe some of you can clarify this a little for me...

bran·dish (brndsh)
tr.v. bran·dished, bran·dish·ing, bran·dish·es
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously. See Synonyms at flourish.
n.
A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.


Utah Code
Title 76 Utah Criminal Code
Chapter 10 Offenses Against Public Health, Safety, Welfare, and Morals
Section 506 Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.

76-10-506. Threatening with or using dangerous weapon in fight or quarrel.
Every person, except those persons described in Section 76-10-503, who, not in necessary self defense in the presence of two or more persons, draws or exhibits any dangerous weapon in an angry and threatening manner or unlawfully uses the same in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
Click to expand...
The news, as usual, seems to get it's facts on the law by asking everyone but an expert or lawyer. The original version of the bill specifically distinguished that open carry was legal (of course it already is but I guess some cops and schools need it spelled out for them). The substitute seems to just make some grammar changes and in whole I think does next to nothing.

You are still legally okay if your weapon becomes unconcealed and you aren't threatening with it.... however why are you concealing... it's all about open man :p
 
U

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
imported post

As currently amended, HB78 S1 (first substitute) does a couple of things:

1-It affirmatively declares that in the absence of some other behavior, openly carrying a gun is not "Threatening";

2-It clarifies that it is legal to threaten to use force if one reasonably believes that such threat is necessary to prevent harm.

In other words, it is currently legal to use force. Interestingly, it is not currently, explicitly legal to THREATEN to use force. So while you are technically justified in shooting someone, you may not be technically justified in warning that you are prepared to shoot.

The primary intent of the bill is to provide a specific legal ability for a middle ground between:

1-"Back off!"; and
2-Bang, bang.

Under this bill the following would be explicitly legal if you believed you were in danger:

1-"Back off!"
2-"Back off or I will shoot!"
3-Access the gun
4-Display the gun
5-Bang, Bang.

1 through 4 would also be legal even if at 4, the bad guy runs away and you never actually have to pull the trigger.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

Charles
 
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