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Thread: OC/CC Now Legal at NPS, NWR, & National Monuments

  1. #1
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    G'day All,

    Be aware that OC/CC is now legal in ""all 551 units of the National Wildlife Refuge System, as well as the National Monuments and the 392 units of the National Park System." Just stay out of the ranger stations, welcome centers, & etc.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/38744.html

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    My understanding of the new regulation is that is simply removes the federal prohibition on firearms in national parks. State law is now in effect for all national parks in any given state. What this means in Alabama is all state and national parks are still a no carry zone.

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    REB wrote:
    My understanding of the new regulation is that is simply removes the federal prohibition on firearms in national parks. State law is now in effect for all national parks in any given state. What this means in Alabama is all state and national parks are still a no carry zone.
    The AL laws governing state parks, reserves, & forests specifically say that it is unlawful to do X in a "state park/reserve/forest". National parks, reserves, and forests are not mentioned at all in the state statutes. Therefore, the national facilities are only subject to "general" state law, which allows OC and CC with permit.

    If you have a specific reference to an AL state statute that covers national parks/reserves/forests, please list it here so that we can be advised of it.

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    First the new law does not cover national forest, only national parks and National wildlife management areas.

    The new regulation is

    The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if
    (1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
    (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.
    In short, this means that the rules and restrictions are now the same as they would be anywhere else in the state.

    You may be correct for national parksas Alabama law seems to only apply to state parks. I am not so sure about WMAs because of 9-11-304 which reads "The carrying or possession of firearms within any wildlife management area, except while in possession of a valid permit allowing this privilege, is prohibited; provided, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to any authorized law enforcement officer nor to any officer of the United States forest service, the United States Bureau of Biological Survey, or of the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources while in the pursuit of his official duty."


    Just putting this out there for discussion as I have not looked into it that closely..

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    http://www.alapark.com/parks/pdfs/Ru...egulations.pdf



    8.
    Prohibited Devices (220-5-.08)

    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement

    officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written

    permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited;

    provided, however, nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of

    handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the

    handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose. No person shall possess,

    discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets,

    cap pistols, or other fireworks
    Looks like this is the new version of our Dept. of Conservation's gun control rule for state parks.



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    http://www.outdooralabama.com/huntin...3-1-10)%20.pdf


    220-2-.21 Possession of Firearms or Bow and Arrow in any

    Wildlife Management Area, Refuge or Sanctuary

    Prohibited

    No person shall take, carry, or possess any firearms or bow of any

    description whatsoever in any wildlife management area in this State during

    the closed season on game birds, game and/or fur-bearing animals, except on

    an open designated target range and except a person may possess a bow and

    arrow only during special bow season allowed for the taking of rough fish.

    No person shall at any time take, carry or possess any firearms or bows of

    any description whatsoever in or on any wildlife refuge or wildlife sanctuary

    located in or on any national forest area in this State, or on or in any state or

    federal sanctuary except by special permit or when bow and arrows may be

    legally possessed during special bow season provided for the taking of rough

    fish on such areas by regulations of the Department of Conservation and

    Natural Resources, provided, however, that this rule shall not apply to the

    possession of firearms by State Conservation Officers, state or county

    enforcement officers, or federal agents, when they are on active duty in the

    performance of their duties in the enforcement of the laws of this State. ...

    ... (ff) Nothing in this regulation prohibits or requires a wildlife

    management area permit for the possession of handguns by

    lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the

    handguns are not used to hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife

    except as otherwise provided by this regulation.

    That is the new version of the Alabama Dept. of Conservation's gun control bill for state wildlife management areas.

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    This is outstanding news. :celebrate

  8. #8
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    Awesome! Thanks for the additional information.

  9. #9
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    Itwould beawesome if they considered every citizen to be lawfully licensed to carry firearms by their federal and state constitutions like the people said.



    Otherwise... it is still unconstitutional gun control IMO. Notice the exclusive reference to handguns by lawfully licensed persons? What about all other legal arms and people without licenses who don't need them elsewhere for their arms?

    What part of "excluded out of the general powers of government" do these people who swore to defend those constitutions not understand?

  10. #10
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    49er wrote:
    ....Notice the exclusive reference to handguns by lawfully licensed persons? What about all other legal arms and people without licenses who don't need them elsewhere for their arms?
    It's certainly not ideal. However, it is a step in the right direction. It's up to us to engage in the process and keep this momentum going.

  11. #11
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    At least you aren't forced to conceal. You just need the license.
    And just think of the fun you can have, when OC'ing and they ask if you have a
    permit for that. Since there is no permit to OC, you can truthfully say "No Sir",
    they will never think to ask if you have a gun permit as required.

    So just think of it as a really BIG car with the top down.


    Maybe I can finally feel safe and go all the way through Wheeler Wildlife Preseve
    now. Always wanted to know what was on the other side of all those bare assed
    barney frank types. Would have thought the beavers would scare them away.

    Our state house is trying to get us half off admissions to state parks in this session,
    so we will have more money for bail I guess when the ranger doesn't get the memo.

    I need to get the bill number but Little says they are working on more recognition
    of our permits in other states. I told him if it means testing, and other requirements
    to just not bother ruining one of the better things about this state.
    Will contact him again about maybe an Alabama Out of State permit with all those
    commie requirements, so if a citizen needs to be out and about they can choose
    to pay, and train. I don't mind people making choices. After all there are still 3rd
    party license restrictions in the more 'progressive' areas of the country that can put
    you in a bind.

    Make it a felony to confiscate an Alabama citizens gun if he is exercising his right
    to freely travel. Then you could drag those commie thugs back here and lock them up.
    I could tolerate my stay as a guest at lorton knowing the jack booted thug was
    catching aids in limestone at the same time.


  12. #12
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    49er wrote:
    http://www.outdooralabama.com/huntin...3-1-10)%20.pdf


    220-2-.21 Possession of Firearms or Bow and Arrow in any

    Wildlife Management Area, Refuge or Sanctuary

    Prohibited

    No person shall take, carry, or possess any firearms or bow of any

    description whatsoever in any wildlife management area in this State during

    the closed season on game birds, game and/or fur-bearing animals, except on

    an open designated target range and except a person may possess a bow and

    arrow only during special bow season allowed for the taking of rough fish.

    No person shall at any time take, carry or possess any firearms or bows of

    any description whatsoever in or on any wildlife refuge or wildlife sanctuary

    located in or on any national forest area in this State, or on or in any state or

    federal sanctuary except by special permit or when bow and arrows may be

    legally possessed during special bow season provided for the taking of rough

    fish on such areas by regulations of the Department of Conservation and

    Natural Resources, provided, however, that this rule shall not apply to the

    possession of firearms by State Conservation Officers, state or county

    enforcement officers, or federal agents, when they are on active duty in the

    performance of their duties in the enforcement of the laws of this State. ...

    ... (ff) Nothing in this regulation prohibits or requires a wildlife

    management area permit for the possession of handguns by

    lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the

    handguns are not used to hunt or take or to attempt to take wildlife

    except as otherwise provided by this regulation.

    That is the new version of the Alabama Dept. of Conservation's gun control bill for state wildlife management areas.
    The linked document does not match your quote. I can't find anything supporting your claim for the change in WMAs.

  13. #13
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    OK I found where you are getting the last part of your quote. It is in section 220-2-55. I still need to really read this as I am not sure it applies to Section 220-2-21.

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    DCNR regulations are some of the most confusing rules contrived by bureaucrats anywhere. The dots between the paragraphs in my quote indicate a break in the text as it is written... a long break. But that's the way you have to read the DCNR gun control rules to get the big picture.

    You may have noticed this paragraph in 220-2-.55 as well:

    ... (1) It shall be unlawful on ALL WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AREAS,...

    (h) For any person to carry in or on a vehicle, any of the following:


    any firearms [including pistols/handguns, except as described in


    (ff)] with ammunition in the magazine, breech or clip attached to


    firearms, or black powder weapons with primer, cap or flash


    powder in place, or cocked crossbows. See (ff) for limited


    exception for certain lawfully licensed handguns possessed for

    personal protection.


    As I said, the rules are confusing. Related parts are scattered. You have to try to put all the pieces of the puzzle together to try to figure them out. Good luck with that.



    This seems to be more concise and to the point:



    SECTION 36

    Construction of Declaration of Rights.
    That this enumeration of certain rights shall not impair or deny others retained by the people; and, to guard against any encroachments on the rights herein retained, we declare that everything in this Declaration of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate.





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