Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: What would you do? (Scenario)

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    41

    Post imported post

    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?

  2. #2
    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Olympia, Washington, USA
    Posts
    866

    Post imported post

    Not fire... I know it sucks, but shooting somebody in the back is instant lockup in a prosecutors mind..
    www.WaGuns.org

    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327

    Post imported post

    Why do you ask?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    41

    Post imported post

    kparker wrote:
    Why do you ask?
    Because I want to know what you would do.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769

    Post imported post

    You need to familiarize yourself with the Clear and Present Danger Doctrine. Basically once hte agressor has truned his back and started to leave, the clear and present danger has disappeared. It does not matter if he fired a shot at you, he has started to retreat and no longer presents an immediate threat. If he turns around and faces you again, the situation has quite possibly returned to clear and present danger, depending upon his other actions. Did He drop his weapon and raise his hands? Did he raise his hands while still holding the gun? Did he point the gun at you?

    Questions you need to be able to answer in the blink of an eye and have the right answer.

    As for what I would do under the scenario you presented, I would call 911, advies them what transpired, and remain alert until LEO responds. Then approach LEO with hands clearly visible and EMPTY

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    Trigger Dr wrote:
    You need to familiarize yourself with the Clear and Present Danger Doctrine. Basically once hte agressor has truned his back and started to leave, the clear and present danger has disappeared. It does not matter if he fired a shot at you, he has started to retreat and no longer presents an immediate threat. If he turns around and faces you again, the situation has quite possibly returned to clear and present danger, depending upon his other actions. Did He drop his weapon and raise his hands? Did he raise his hands while still holding the gun? Did he point the gun at you?

    Questions you need to be able to answer in the blink of an eye and have the right answer.

    As for what I would do under the scenario you presented, I would call 911, advies them what transpired, and remain alert until LEO responds. Then approach LEO with hands clearly visible and EMPTY
    Technically, the man could fire at you even as he's running away. Especially if he has his pistol in his hands as he's running out the door. When I read the story, the image I got in my head was that of the intruder running away, with pistol in hand.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327

    Post imported post

    Because I want to know what you would do.
    Please try to give a responsive answer. Why do you want to know that? Are you looking for information because you don't know yourself, are you surveying the folks here for some other reason, or...?





  8. #8
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    2,043

    Post imported post

    Front/back has nothing to do with this scenario.

    In Washington state, its all about threat. Threat to you and possibly others and showing to a PA or jury what you knew about that threat at that time.

    A few points...

    1. You know for sure he has a real gun, and its loaded.

    2. You know for sure he has already committed two crimes, atleast one of which is a felony.

    3. You know for sure he is willing to, and capable of murder.

    4. You DONT know for sure that hes looking to flee, only that hes he is headed toward the door.

    5. You DONT know for sure hes not looking for better cover outside or running to get buddies, or to enter through another entrance.

    6. You DONT know that no-one outside that he may come across wont be hurt by his possible escape if he is fleeing.

    The fact that he turned his back has no bearing in my mind. He is still in your house, he still has a gun and hes still a threat.

    Until hes out of sight, or placed himself in a situation that may endanger more people by my returning fire than than letting him go, hes fair game.

    Turning a back to a victim who defends themselves from a clear threat should NEVER become a defense for a criminal.

    My .02


  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    FMCDH wrote:
    Front/back has nothing to do with this scenario.

    In Washington state, its all about threat. Threat to you and possibly others and showing to a PA or jury what you knew about that threat at that time.

    A few points...

    1. You know for sure he has a real gun, and its loaded.

    2. You know for sure he has already committed two crimes, atleast one of which is a felony.

    3. You know for sure he is willing to, and capable of murder.

    4. You DONT know for sure that hes looking to flee, only that hes he is headed toward the door.

    5. You DONT know for sure hes not looking for better cover outside or running to get buddies, or to enter through another entrance.

    6. You DONT know that no-one outside that he may come across wont be hurt by his possible escape if he is fleeing.

    The fact that he turned his back has no bearing in my mind. He is still in your house, he still has a gun and hes still a threat.

    Until hes out of sight, or placed himself in a situation that may endanger more people by my returning fire than than letting him go, hes fair game.

    Turning a back to a victim who defends themselves from a clear threat should NEVER become a defense for a criminal.

    My .02
    I agree

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lewis County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    226

    Post imported post

    I would call the police and report it like a good little nub. In the late morning Iwould look for someone that can repair whatever window was brokenand try to get it fixed within the same day. My house is cold enough. Maybe laterinvest about $40 into some networked alarm defenses to give me the chance at a pre-emptive strike if and when it happens again. :celebrate

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    208

    Post imported post

    Tony Santiago wrote:
    ...The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, ...
    That is the part that would answer the question for me. How do I know for certainthat he is running out the door and fleeing? If I was sure in my mind that he was running away, I would keep him covered but I wouldn't fire. However, if I saw his shoulders turning in a way that I thought was intended to return fire again, I would fire.

    I REALLY don't want to shoot or kill someone, unless I truly think they could be a threat. I don't want blood in my house, I don't want to turn the neighborhood into a crime scene for the night, I don't want the police interrogation, I don't want the possible night in jail, I don't want the hearing loss, I don't want the trauma to myself and my family... There are countless reasons to let a fleeing, non-threateningcriminal leave on his own.
    IBTL

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    Post imported post

    Tony Santiago wrote:
    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon(Shotgun00 buck, Surefire light)and head out to investigate(I know the layout of my home). As you get to your hall and turn on the light(wouldn't do), you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed,(I would shoot now, in the dark as he is in my home and is on camera)that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses.(wouldn't happen as I would have been able to sneak up on him in my home)The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?
    I hate scenario's that I have made efforts to prevent. I have thought this out many times, there is no reason for anyone to be in my home, I can get to anypoint in my home without an intruder knowing I am there. I know where cover is and how to use it to my advantage. The light I use is blinding. With 00 buck, I do not need to be so accurate, only to know my backstop (sidearm is only needed if the backstop is a family memebers bedroom)


    Live Free or Die!

  13. #13
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,522

    Post imported post

    Maybe also thank god he cant shoot straight.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

  14. #14
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    592

    Post imported post

    Shoot him before he turns around!

  15. #15
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richland, Washington, USA
    Posts
    788

    Post imported post

    Tony Santiago wrote:
    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?
    Well, if he somehow lived long enough to get the chance to flee... I'd have to let him go. It's breaking the law, and a DA will prove it. It's the fact that the entry wounds will be in his back.

    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kent, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,048

    Post imported post

    killchain wrote:
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?
    Well, if he somehow lived long enough to get the chance to flee... I'd have to let him go. It's breaking the law, and a DA will prove it. It's the fact that the entry wounds will be in his back.
    Good to know that next time I'm in a shoot out with someone, all I have to do is turn my back to them, look over my shoulder, and fire at my enemy. That way, if I'm hit, the enemy will be charged, and if he's hit, it'll be justified.

  17. #17
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richland, Washington, USA
    Posts
    788

    Post imported post

    Aaron1124 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?
    Well, if he somehow lived long enough to get the chance to flee... I'd have to let him go. It's breaking the law, and a DA will prove it. It's the fact that the entry wounds will be in his back.
    Good to know that next time I'm in a shoot out with someone, all I have to do is turn my back to them, look over my shoulder, and fire at my enemy. That way, if I'm hit, the enemy will be charged, and if he's hit, it'll be justified.
    Welcome to laws.

    Try explaining to a group of 12 of your peers why you shot someone in the back.

    A pamphlet isn't going to clear that up.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, USA
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    First, if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I go to investigate with my firearm and I see he's armed, he will not get any shots off (if I'm quick enough) and he won't be getting out of the house under his own power. I'll call 911 after to clean up the mess and file a report. Anyone who breaks into my home (also my place of business) with any weapon clearly has intent to commit at least one felony and has placed my whole family in danger. I will use every bit of force I deem necessary to end that threat. If they are willing to ignore my no trespassing signs, pass by my camera system and break into my home once, they are willing to come back and do it again. We're very rural and out of the view of the streets, anyone breaking into our home is doing it for more than a smash and grab, they will be here for a specific reason. Either to steal our guns (more than a few) or intend direct harm to us. Not gonna happen on my watch.

  19. #19
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    2,043

    Post imported post

    killchain wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?
    Well, if he somehow lived long enough to get the chance to flee... I'd have to let him go. It's breaking the law, and a DA will prove it. It's the fact that the entry wounds will be in his back.
    Good to know that next time I'm in a shoot out with someone, all I have to do is turn my back to them, look over my shoulder, and fire at my enemy. That way, if I'm hit, the enemy will be charged, and if he's hit, it'll be justified.
    Welcome to laws.

    Try explaining to a group of 12 of your peers why you shot someone in the back.

    A pamphlet isn't going to clear that up.
    Would you mind citingthat law or case that says a person who just tried to murder you but turned his back to you immediately afteris no longer a valid threat?

    Should be interesting to read....


  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Seattleish, Washington, USA
    Posts
    76

    Post imported post

    If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

    The key here is that the intruder as already committed a felony against you (attempted murder), so you're clear, even if he does make it out the door (but remains on your property).

    Once he's off your property I think the DA will have some questions...


  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    265

    Post imported post

    midiwall wrote:
    If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

    The key here is that the intruder as already committed a felony against you (attempted murder), so you're clear, even if he does make it out the door (but remains on your property).

    Once he's off your property I think the DA will have some questions...
    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.



  22. #22
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Olalla, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,410

    Post imported post

    midiwall wrote:
    If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

    I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Seattleish, Washington, USA
    Posts
    76

    Post imported post

    Ajetpilot wrote:
    midiwall wrote:
    If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":
    I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.
    Yes, in the situation that the OP presented, I would be okay after pulling the trigger.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    265

    Post imported post

    midiwall wrote:
    Ajetpilot wrote:
    midiwall wrote:
    If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":
    I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.
    Yes, in the situation that the OP presented, I would be okay after pulling the trigger.
    if they are fleeing, do you think these two conditions have been met?:

    and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer,



  25. #25
    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richland, Washington, USA
    Posts
    788

    Post imported post

    FMCDH wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    killchain wrote:
    Tony Santiago wrote:
    You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

    He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

    Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

    He DID fire two shots at you.

    If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

    What would you do in this situation?
    Well, if he somehow lived long enough to get the chance to flee... I'd have to let him go. It's breaking the law, and a DA will prove it. It's the fact that the entry wounds will be in his back.
    Good to know that next time I'm in a shoot out with someone, all I have to do is turn my back to them, look over my shoulder, and fire at my enemy. That way, if I'm hit, the enemy will be charged, and if he's hit, it'll be justified.
    Welcome to laws.

    Try explaining to a group of 12 of your peers why you shot someone in the back.

    A pamphlet isn't going to clear that up.
    Would you mind citingthat law or case that says a person who just tried to murder you but turned his back to you immediately afteris no longer a valid threat?

    Should be interesting to read....
    Somebody already posted it for me. The justifiable homicide laws list it out pretty plainly.

    But whatever. Shoot people in the back. Have fun with that.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •