What would you do? (Scenario)

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midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

The key here is that the intruder as already committed a felony against you (attempted murder), so you're clear, even if he does make it out the door (but remains on your property).

Once he's off your property I think the DA will have some questions...

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Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

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midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

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I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.

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Ajetpilot wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

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I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.

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Yes, in the situation that the OP presented, I would be okay after pulling the trigger.

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midiwall wrote:

Ajetpilot wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

Click to expand...

I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.

Click to expand...

Yes, in the situation that the OP presented, I would be okay after pulling the trigger.

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if they are fleeing, do you think these two conditions have been met?:

and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer,

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FMCDH wrote:

killchain wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

killchain wrote:

Tony Santiago wrote:

You have a family. You awaken to the sound of glass breaking in the front room. You grab your weapon and head out to investigate. As you get to your hall and turn on the light, you look down the hall and see a man, who is armed, that has entered your home.

He sees you, and also sees that you're armed. He fires off two shots at you, but misses. The man proceeds to flee the scene and run out the door. As the man turns around to run out the door, you notice you have a clean shot on him, right in the back.

Do you fire? Would this be justifiable? The man has fled the scene, and is exiting your house. Is he still a threat?

He DID fire two shots at you.

If he leaves, will you have to worry about him coming back at a time when you may not be home?

What would you do in this situation?

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Well, if he somehow lived long enough to get the chance to flee... I'd have to let him go. It's breaking the law, and a DA will prove it. It's the fact that the entry wounds will be in his back.

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Good to know that next time I'm in a shoot out with someone, all I have to do is turn my back to them, look over my shoulder, and fire at my enemy. That way, if I'm hit, the enemy will be charged, and if he's hit, it'll be justified.

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Welcome to laws.

Try explaining to a group of 12 of your peers why you shot someone in the back.

A pamphlet isn't going to clear that up.

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Would you mind citingthat law or case that says a person who just tried to murder you but turned his back to you immediately afteris no longer a valid threat?

Should be interesting to read....

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Somebody already posted it for me. The justifiable homicide laws list it out pretty plainly.

But whatever. Shoot people in the back. Have fun with that.

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erps wrote:

midiwall wrote:

Ajetpilot wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

Click to expand...

I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.

Click to expand...

Yes, in the situation that the OP presented, I would be okay after pulling the trigger.

Click to expand...

if they are fleeing, do you think these two conditions have been met?:

and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer,

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"...when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person".

He's already created a felony, and he broke into my home. As much as someone would stand and say "but he was leaving!", I will stand and say "he already took two shots at me, I have every reason to believe that my life is still in danger". So yes, I have reasonable ground to say that "I am in imminent danger of the design being completed".

I don't have to justify both of those points you quoted, or any more than just one of the points in the law.

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erps wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

FMCDH Posts.

There have been cases where people have been shot in the back. Someone can spin around and shoot in a split second, if they are armed just because their back is turned does not make them less dangerous. And while on the premise they are still committing a felony.

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erps wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

The key here is that the intruder as already committed a felony against you (attempted murder), so you're clear, even if he does make it out the door (but remains on your property).

Once he's off your property I think the DA will have some questions...

Click to expand...

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Click to expand...

Hmmm don't ignore the rest of (2).

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In straight forward terms yes you could shoot him as he is armed and still poses a threat to you and yours from even outside the home, REMEMBER HE HAS A GUN AND HAS SHOT AT YOU.
His retreat maybe to a point to turn around and shoot you as you chase him!

The first mistake is that you turned a light on and you were in the open, you need to have a flashlight and a plan to defend yourself in your home and the only time I feel someone should be leaving your secure area is if you have children or others that cannot defend themselves and you are going to them for their safety.

If you get our and just start exposing yourself you will be a target, take up a position of view and if you can wait for them to cross into your path, you see him first and bang take them out, remember there are there to do you harm.

From the post in this thread really shows how many need to seek professional training if not for you then for your family, I know whine whine whine about we don't need no stinking training but in reality it can help anyone.

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Ajetpilot wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

Click to expand...

I think the bigger question is, can you live with yourself after having done so.

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No, the bigger question is, are you going to CONTINUE to live if you don't pull the trigger?

A lot of people are making the assumption that they would have the ability to rationalize "fleeing vs dodging" the second after the man with the gun in your house just tried to murder you.

I submit that most reasonable persons would not, and a jury would see it that way too.

That's just the chance I will choose to take (or not take) if such a scenario ever happens, but it will be done with the knowledge known at the moment, not with the hindsight that some seem to believe they will posses in that moment.

Good luck with that.

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

erps wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

The key here is that the intruder as already committed a felony against you (attempted murder), so you're clear, even if he does make it out the door (but remains on your property).

Once he's off your property I think the DA will have some questions...

Click to expand...

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Click to expand...

Hmmm don't ignore the rest of (2).

Click to expand...

We're obviously reading that sentence differently. All those "or"s and commas are confusing. I'm reading it:

in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer in his presence OR

in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer upon or in a dwelling OR

in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer other place of abode which he is.

In all cases there is the actual resistance of a felony requirement. How are you reading it?

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erps wrote:

sudden valley gunner wrote:

erps wrote:

midiwall wrote:

If I'm reading this right, I think the answer is "yes, you can shoot him even though he may be fleeing":

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

The key here is that the intruder as already committed a felony against you (attempted murder), so you're clear, even if he does make it out the door (but remains on your property).

Once he's off your property I think the DA will have some questions...

Click to expand...

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Click to expand...

Hmmm don't ignore the rest of (2).

Click to expand...

We're obviously reading that sentence differently. All those "or"s and commas are confusing. I'm reading it:

in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer in his presence OR

in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer upon or in a dwelling OR

in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer other place of abode which he is.

In all cases there is the actual resistance of a felony requirement. How are you reading it?

Click to expand...

I agree... I think that SVG and I are reading it differently. I'm on board with the OR's

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the wording and time line is too screwy and slow,,,

as soon as i saw the MWAG,,, i would shoot him,,, until he was no longer a threat,,,
if i missed, and he shot at me, i would shoot some more,,, until he was no longer a threat,,,
if i missed again, i would reload,,,
REPEAT!

this scenero has us watching and waiting and reviewing the applicable RCWs

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This is why need to stop having lawyers write laws. They are hardly ever perfectly clear.

While he is still on your property he and has just committed a felony who says exactly when that felony ends? That is where it gets confusing. Washington having no specific castle doctrine doesn't help either. And so many factors would be included.

If you can be shot for calling 911 and walking outside with a phone book in your hand and it is justified by some opinions then how much more for someone protecting family and property?

The state legislature specifically realized that LEO have more restricted use of force than regular folk. So as an LEO (in your duty as an officer, not off duty protecting yourself and family) you might have a different perspective than someone who is not an LEO.

This is not a post of my opinions of what I would do, just a hypothetical discussion of what the state may or may not allow by law.