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Shooting at a fleeing suspect?

compmanio365

compmanio365

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http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2010/02/17/washington-house-sitter-shoots-at-intruder-misses/
House-sitter shoots at intruder, misses A Douglas County man who was watching a home for a friend shot at an intruder in the home as he fled but missed, authorities said.
The man arrived at the house, southeast of Bridgeport, to find the door open and burglars inside, said Douglas County Sheriff Harvey Gjesdal.
The home is in the 3400 block of Highway 172, about one mile west of Sims Corner.
Gjesdal said the man saw a suspect dressed in black and wearing a ski mask, and went to his pickup to retrieve a 9 mm pistol, he said.
When he returned he heard glass breaking and believes he saw the man in black with something in his hand as he fled, the sheriff said. The man told police he fired twice, but missed.
When deputies arrived, they searched the home and found a 20-year-old Bridgeport man hiding in the bathroom. He had injuries from a saw he pulled on top of himself when the other suspect fled, he said. He was treated by an ambulance crew, the sheriff said.
Deputies used dogs and night-vision optics to search the area, but were unable to locate the man who fled.
Gjesdal said an investigation led to two other Bridgeport males, one 20 and one 17, who were also arrested as suspects in the burglary.
Authorities have identified a 23-year-old Bridgeport man they believe to be the man who fled, and they are searching for him, the sheriff said.
He said there’s nothing to suggest the man who fired acted inappropriately.

[align=left]
[/align][align=left]So much for the "Don't shoot at a fleeing attacker" mandate........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house! Not saying this is right, not saying it isn't.....I just think it's highly interesting......
[/align]
​
 
M

midiwall

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compmanio365 wrote:
So much for the "Don't shoot at a fleeing attacker" mandate........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house! Not saying this is right, not saying it isn't.....I just think it's highly interesting......
​
Click to expand...
According to the RCW, he's clear:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

"(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is."
 
killchain

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midiwall wrote:
compmanio365 wrote:
So much for the "Don't shoot at a fleeing attacker" mandate........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house! Not saying this is right, not saying it isn't.....I just think it's highly interesting......
​
Click to expand...
According to the RCW, he's clear:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

"(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is."
Click to expand...

We just want to shoot dudes in the back tonight, don't we?
 
J

joeroket

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midiwall wrote:
compmanio365 wrote:
So much for the "Don't shoot at a fleeing attacker" mandate........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house!  Not saying this is right, not saying it isn't.....I just think it's highly interesting......
​
Click to expand...
According to the RCW, he's clear:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

"(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is."
Click to expand...

Once he starts to flee the attempt to commit a felony has ended. He is not clear. Had he shot/killed the subject in the back he more than likely would be facing manslaughter charges.
 
Beretta92FSLady

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When I read(e) this article I wondered if the man shooting at the intruder as the intruder was running away was going to be charged with a crime.

Should the man be charged?....NO, IMO Even if the house-sitter actually shot the intruder in the back, I have no problem with it personally. Would I do it?....heck no!
 
Beretta92FSLady

Beretta92FSLady

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[align=left]........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house!
[/align]​
Click to expand...
Your place of abode is Washington State FWIU includes any place that you are sleeping, no matter how temporary....a tent is a place of abode FWIU....I coul dbe wrong about all of this. The fact that the intruder entered the house posed a danger to all the legal inhabitants of the home.
 
M

midiwall

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killchain wrote:
We just want to shoot dudes in the back tonight, don't we?
Click to expand...
It's not my call that someone started a new thread on the topic. I still stand by my statement in the other thread.

I will concede on _this_ thread that I misread the original post.

believes he saw the man in black with something in his hand as he fled, the sheriff said. The man told police he fired twice, but missed.
Click to expand...
This is an ambiguous statement that doesn't draw a true timeline. When I first read it, I did not read it as "the man shot at the intruder as he fled". I read it disconnected as "the man fired twice" being separate from "as he fled".

If he shot (and hit) as the intruder was running out the door, _and no felony had yet been committed_ then yes, the shooter would be in trouble.

That would make this a different situation than the other thread.
 
sudden valley gunner

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I am a strong proponent of private property although I woud not shoot a fleeing victim and not saying I would shoot someone for the following reasons, I don't think anybody should be prosecuted for shooting someone who was intent on stealing or committing any other crimes on their property. It might start teaching folks to respect property again.
 
OrangeIsTrouble

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Sylvia Plath wrote:

[align=left]........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house!
[/align]​
Click to expand...
Your place of abode is Washington State FWIU includes any place that you are sleeping, no matter how temporary....a tent is a place of abode FWIU....I coul dbe wrong about all of this. The fact that the intruder entered the house posed a danger to all the legal inhabitants of the home.
Click to expand...

So then I could live in a motorhome... driving around...carrying concealed inside it while driving it...without a CPL...because it is my place of abode? :lol:

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
Click to expand...

Nurg nurg nurg.
 
BigDave

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As to this situation I feel the person house sitting was well with in his legal right to use deadly force as to what he knew at that point in time his life was in immediate threat of life or limb.
Multiple intruders, observed what could be a deadly weapon in hand, running to an area of cover (still another intruder in the home) where he could use the weapon in his hand or retrieve another.

"Gjesdal said the man saw a suspect dressed in black and wearing a ski mask, and went to his pickup to retrieve a 9 mm pistol, he said.

When he returned he heard glass breaking and believes he saw the man in black with something in his hand as he fled, the sheriff said. The man told police he fired twice, but missed."
Click to expand...
Do we have AOJ (Ability Opportunity and Jeopardy) full filled here, I think so and with that I feel a reasonable prudent man would have done the same thing.
Note this incident has different circumstances then ones I have posted on before as there is a clear and present danger.
To bad he was not a better shot at night, which is a tough thing to do, I wonder if he had a flashlight or not?
 
Beretta92FSLady

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Poosharker wrote:
Sylvia Plath wrote:


[align=left]........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house!
[/align]​
Click to expand...
Your place of abode is Washington State FWIU includes any place that you are sleeping, no matter how temporary....a tent is a place of abode FWIU....I coul dbe wrong about all of this. The fact that the intruder entered the house posed a danger to all the legal inhabitants of the home.
Click to expand...

So then I could live in a motorhome... driving around...carrying concealed inside it while driving it...without a CPL...because it is my place of abode? :lol:

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
Click to expand...

Nurg nurg nurg.
Click to expand...
Except in the person's place of abode or a fixed place of business.....I would love to know what "fixed place of business means" and i would like to know if the place of abode has to be fixed, and what constitues fixed.
 
OrangeIsTrouble

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It doesn't say FIXED place of abode now does it? ;)

You said a place of abode could be a tent....last I checked, you can pack a tent up and go places with it...
 
Beretta92FSLady

Beretta92FSLady

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Poosharker wrote:
It doesn't say FIXED place of abode now does it? ;)

You said a place of abode could be a tent....last I checked, you can pack a tent up and go places with it...
Click to expand...
That is what i am saying, but wondering....it does say place of abode, then it goes on to say fixed business. The "fixed" reference was not applied to place of abode.
 
BigDave

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When it comes to your place of abode it is referring to your place of residence and attached structures such as garage, porches and decks (if they are attached).
If you are in a hotel room or an RV that you are presently living in that is also generally accepted as your place of abode.

RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following: (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
Click to expand...


82 State v. Smith July 2003 118 Wn. App. 480 AGID, J. - James Smith appeals his conviction for unlawful display of a weapon in violation of RCW 9.41.270(1). The issue is whether Smith's display of a weapon in his backyard falls within the "place of abode" exception to the statute. RCW 9.41.270(3)(a). Smith's actions do not fall within the exception because a backyard is not "in" a person's place of abode. We therefore affirm.
Click to expand...


35 Wn. App. 96, STATE v. HALEY [3] Weapons - Intimidation With Weapon - Abode Exception - What Constitutes - Deck. For purposes of the exception to the crime of intimidation with a weapon for acts committed while in the actor's place of abode (RCW 9.41.270(3)(a)), a deck attached to a dwelling constitutes a part of a place of abode. Court of Appeals: Holding that the deck was part of the juvenile's "place of abode" for purposes of the statutory exception to the definition of the crime, the court REVERSES the judgment.
Click to expand...
 
FMCDH

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midiwall wrote:
This is an ambiguous statement that doesn't draw a true timeline. When I first read it, I did not read it as "the man shot at the intruder as he fled". I read it disconnected as "the man fired twice" being separate from "as he fled".

If he shot (and hit) as the intruder was running out the door, _and no felony had yet been committed_ then yes, the shooter would be in trouble.

That would make this a different situation than the other thread.
Click to expand...
I agree.

In this situation, a clear danger has not been established.

Given the information as stated in the OP, I probably wouldn't choose to shoot.
 
Sparky508

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So then I could live in a motorhome... driving around...carrying concealed inside it while driving it...without a CPL...because it is my place of abode? :lol:
Nurg nurg nurg.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I suspect that if the motor home was once broken, and you took it in for repairs, than you would be alright to say it was fixed. ;)
 
Decoligny

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joeroket wrote:
midiwall wrote:
compmanio365 wrote:
So much for the "Don't shoot at a fleeing attacker" mandate........this guy wasn't even attacking him....and it wasn't his house! Not saying this is right, not saying it isn't.....I just think it's highly interesting......
​
Click to expand...
According to the RCW, he's clear:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/Rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

"(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is."
Click to expand...

Once he starts to flee the attempt to commit a felony has ended. He is not clear. Had he shot/killed the subject in the back he more than likely would be facing manslaughter charges.
Click to expand...
If he had, as reported, something in his hand, it would be reasonable to believe that it was property stolen from the dwelling. Therefore, the thief was still in the process of commiting the felony and he was still in the presence of the shooter.
 
amlevin

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The Sheriff's statement is probably based on the fact he didn't hit the actor. If he had hit and killed him then the Sheriff may well have had a different comment.

Who knows?
 
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