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Thread: False Arrest by the LAPD

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    New year's day had been so far rather uneventful for myself and my wife. We slept in pretty late and didn't do much until later in the day. We'd been up late attending Travis Pastrana's world record jump, and then fishing. So when the afternoon neared a close, we headed out. She took the truck to run some errands, and to her folks place. I was in need of a good bicycle ride, so off I went. We would meet at the coffee shop later to sip some coffee or tea and regroup.

    As I had been carrying alot lately, I had my trusty Beretta 92 comfortably in it's holster on my hip. With evening approaching and the temp just a little chilly out, I threw on a sweater. Before leaving the house, I do a quick "dress rehearsal" with the wife to ensure proper UOC clothing adjustment. (I do this pretty regularly) After some debate, we both agree it's just best to actually pull the sweater down under my belt (and thus behind the holster altogether) to avoid any concealment issues. In addition to this, a quick load check for any 12031 issues.

    So after a nice ride, I meet with the wife at the coffee shop and we walk inside to get myself a white mocha and her a tea. Seated at an inside table are a couple of local security dicks who seem to be taking very close notice of me. This isn't the first time for this however, and I give a brief smile and nod to the one who seems to be staring the most. I figure why not try to be polite, despite the fact he's now looking at me like I'm covered with ants.

    About the time we get our drinks and head out to the outdoor tables, we notice that this security dick is now talking nervously into his cellphone in hushed tones and glancing at me about every 2-3 seconds. My wife mentions it to me once we sit down, and I tell her I noticed as well, and that he's probably calling the Feds on me (or something sarcastic like that).

    Well we sat for about 10 harassment-free minutes, talking with the other patrons and sipping the drinks. (Shockingly, none of them ran screaming at the sight of my pistol!) And then the LAPD shows up......

    At this point I feel the need to clarify that while I believe these particular cops deserve every bit of public shame they have earned, my legal counsel advises against giving their real names YET. So for now, and for purposes of this posting, I'll just assign them names which fit their physical appearance. Fair enough?

    The first two officers showed up in a fully marked LAPD cruiser. The car comes to a stop, and without bothering to pull to the curb, officers OJ and Sawed-off exit the car, walking in my direction. Aware of this, and anticipating a LEO encounter, I activate the audio recording function on my phone and set it on the table next to me. The 2 officers stop about 12' short of where I'm sitting. With their hands on their guns (also known as brandishing), they ask me to come over and talk to them for a second. The moment I get up, they both bark at me to put my hands on my head. I comply and the cuffs go on immediately, followed by OJ pulling my weapon from it's holster. I ask him why I'm in handcuffs when I've done nothing wrong.

    OJ: "We got a call of a man with a gun."

    MH: "Well there's nothing illegal about that."

    OJ: "Yeah I understand that. I know who you are. We're just gonna verify everything and make sure it's not loaded."

    MH: "Do you have reason to believe I've done something wrong?"

    OJ: "I understand you're trying to bait me....."

    MH: "I'm not trying to bait you, I'm just asking a question."

    The audio gets a little bit lousy here for maybe 15 seconds. They move me to a bench nearby, and my wife bravely walks up and sets my phone down next to me because my dumb ass left it on the table. She then moves back a few feet and continues filming with her cellphone cam. OJ asks her to move further away.

    MH: "She's with me."

    OJ: "I understand that."

    He sure says that alot for a guy who will likely claim much ignorance on this incident later on.

    MH: "This camera is here , basically, just to keep you honest."

    OJ: "I been on the job 23 years. I'm not gonna do anything wrong to you, O.K.?"

    MH: "You've already DONE something wrong to me."

    OJ: "Well you know what? Again, to verify and make sure everything's all Kosher, if everything's all good to go, you'll get your weapon back. No problem sir, alright?"

    As of this posting, I haven't gotten it back. But hey, maybe he meant to add....."months later."

    OJ: "But for my safe- my partner's safety, right, we're in here dealing with you, we don't need other parties standing by. She can record. I'm not stopping her from recording here. Am I?.......Do you have any I.D. on you sir?"

    MH: "No."

    OJ: "You got an I.D. to verify who you are?"

    MH: "No."

    Sawed-off: "What's your last name sir?"

    MH: "I really don't feel like giving that information out."

    OJ asks Sawed-off "Who's responding?" and then engages in some police jargon with some other party on the radio for a moment. I will also point out here that at this point I've figured out that officer OJ is a liar. He told me earlier on that he knew who I was, but is now demanding that I identify myself. WTF?

    OJ: "Who does the weapon belong to?"

    MH: "Me."

    OJ: "O.K. do you have I.D.?"

    This shyte is getting old. Either he's deaf, or is implying I'm as big a liar as himself.

    MH: "No."

    OJ: "O.K. so how can we verify who you are then? To run the gun and verify it's your weapon....."

    MH: "Do you have a reason to believe I'm not who I said I am?"

    Alright this doesn't make sense, but I was angry and nervous. Besides, he already knows who I am, right?

    OJ: "But we don't even know who you are."

    MH: "You know who I am. I haven't done anything wrong."

    OJ: "Right now you're being detained for investigation."

    MH: "For what?"

    OJ: "Hmm?"

    MH: "Into what crime?"

    OJ: "Right now you have a gun, uh, like I said, I know you're a security guard, right?"

    MH: "I'm not a security guard. And again, this is not a crime."

    OJ: "You still have to have I.D. on you, to verify who you are."

    MH: "No I don't."

    OJ: "O.K., alright, so you're not gonna tell us your last name or anything?"

    Silence

    OJ: "You understand? People call saying a man's here with a gun, at the coffee shop, so that's why we're here."

    A little fuzzy on the audio here for just a sec, but a sentence ending with "....describing you to a tee, so that's why we're here."

    MH: "When you get a moment, can I get your business card?"

    OJ: "Sure, I'll give you a business card."

    Sawed-off puts one in my pocket. Long silence.

    OJ: "Of course, you understand, as soon as we get called, we HAVE to investigate."

    More unintelligible crap and something about a call they'd had some other time about some guy with a rifle.

    OJ: "Again, if you're not gonna give us your information, we gotta investigate who you are. What if we run the gun and it comes back to someone else? And you gotta clear your name? Like I said, you cooperate with us, in and out."

    Does anyone here read Stephen King? Remember the sheriff who didn't make any sense in Desperation??

    OJ makes a quick phone call to inquire "who's on shift tonight". I suspect this is to figure out if it's someone who'll help him lie, as it seems he's trying to up the ante in his percieved "******* contest". Another car shows up and out steps a large, unpleasant looking short-haired woman. She speaks with Sawed-off for a minute and then comes over to where they have me sitting.

    Militia Etheridge: "How ya' doin' sir? Happy New Year."

    MH: " Happy New Year."

    To be honest, I'd have wished her a much lousier year, had I known that she too was trying to hose me.

    Militia: "What's goin on today?"

    MH: "Ask these two."

    Militia: "No I'm asking you, I'm not asking them. All I know is we got a radio call of a man with a gun, and apparently you had a gun on you. Not loaded, I understand. Now where were you when the officers got here? In a car?"

    MH: "No, the coffee shop."

    Militia: "O.K. do you understand how people would percieve that? They look over, they see a guy- especially in these times, you know, newspapers with shootings and all this stuff. Can you see how that could be percieved as a threat? Some guy they don't know sitting in a coffee shop with a gun on his side?"

    After this barrage of finger-wagging drivel, I simply stopped talking altogether. (I think I already spoke too much at that point anyways.) I mean, what could I possibly say to her? Hell, she sounded just like that lying ass officer OJ! I decided that anything I would've/could've said would be at least useless, or at most very unkind to this wildebeast of a woman. So I shut up.

    Militia: "Hello?!"

    Silence

    Militia: "Do you understand how that could be percieved as a threat? They have somebody they don't know at a business, with a gun on their side. And we've got people out here getting shot, murdered, killed, whatever. They don't know who you are, sir. We're here because we got called here, O.K?.......... Are you refusing to answer my question? O.K., so you're gonna, uh, so basically you're uh, interfering with this investigation. 'Cause I'm telling you, you need to either cooperate or we're gonna take you to the station! O.K. is that what you choose to do?

    Militia: (to the other officers) "O.K. we'll take him for 148."

    Militia: "You're under arrest sir for interfering with my officers' investigation."

    OJ: "Is this your phone sir?"

    MH: "Yep."

    OJ: "I'm gonna place it in your pockets right now." (puts it in my pocket) "Stand up."

    MH: "Which station will I be taken to?"

    Sawed-off: "Initially you'll be going to Harbor Station."

    MH: (to my wife) "I'll be at Harbor Division."

    Wife: (to LEOs) "What are the charges?"

    Militia: "Interfering."

    OJ: "148PC"

    I'm gonna skip over the ride down there because it wasmostly uneventful and I'm tired of writing. So we get to the desk at the station and there sits a bald man with a mustache who is identified to me as the watch commander.

    OJ: "We're gonna check with the watch commander. Since you refused your name, we have to book you as a John Doe."

    MH: "Excuse me, didn't you say you'd dealt with me before?"

    OJ: "I dealt with you after the fact."

    The man at the desk turns his attention to us....

    Gordon Liddy: "Hi."

    MH: "Hi."

    Gordon: "What are we here for?"

    OJ: "Uh, refusing, we got a man with a gun call, he had a gun on his hip, unloaded, magazine in the well."

    Gordon: "Magazine in the well??"

    OJ: "Magazine in the well, not loaded though."

    Gordon: "O.K."

    OJ: "Um, didn't tell us who he is. Doesn't have no I.D. on him. Brought him in for 148."

    Gordon: (to MH) "You understand you're not under arrest for the charge? There's no gun charge here. But since you refused to identify yourself......"

    MH: "California is not a 'stop and identify' state. So what you're sayingis that you're harassing me just for not telling him (OJ) who I was?"

    Gordon: "No no no. Based on the radio call, you were required to identify under the law. So if you would've cooperated, you would've been on your way. Now you're in here under investigation. That's why you're under arrest."

    MH: "Excuse me, but I'm not REQUIRED to cooperate."

    Gordon: "O.K. (to OJ) fill that out and I'll ask you some questions later."

    OJ: "O.K. so you're not gonna tell us your name? Well then it's John doe."

    Gordon: "Mr. John Doe, do you understand why you're being detained?"

    MH: "Excuse me, I'm UNDER ARREST."

    Gordon: "O.K. detained or arrested, whatever. Do you understand why you're being detained, Mr. John Doe?"

    MH: "No."

    Gordon: "As of right now you're being detained for interfering with a police investigation, and refusing to answer the officer's identification. Also I'll have to check on the fact that, if you have a magazine in the gunwell of the gun, even if it's empty I think that's illegal. You can have an empty weapon but you can't have a magazine placedin there. I'll have to research that and find out. So now do you understand?"

    MH: "No."

    Gordon: "Do you take medication?

    MH: "Actually I do take, occasionally, methocarbamol."

    Gordon Liddy gives me an annoyed, clueless look.

    MH: "Carpal tunnel."

    Gordon: "O.K. do you have any questions or concerns with this detention or arrest?"

    MH: "I have MANY questions and concerns."

    Gordon: "O.K. well ask."

    MH: "No."

    Gordon: "O.K. sir we'll be back with you. We'll call blah blah blah...."

    So they take me into this little area, chain me to a bench, and I sit there for a few minutes. OJ and Sawed-off return and unhook me long enough to take everything I had on me except for shoes, shirt and pants. I looked at them a little funny when they asked for my shoelaces. Sawed-off explained that this was so I couldn't use them to hurt myself. So I said: "You know, I had a gun on me when you arrested me, right?" Sawed-off just looks at me like an ignorant little doe in the headlights.

    I sit there for about 15 more minutes and OJ comes back again. This time he wants to argue about how I should have identified myself and cooperated with them and so on. So again, I inform him that I don't have to speak to them, ESPECIALLY if I'm the one being "investigated".He goes on some more with the same shyte and I ask him what country he was born in. He says this one, of course. I then ask him if he'd heard of the 5A. Again he starts the blathering, so I finally just tell him to either charge me or give it up! He then storms off like a child sent to bed without dinner.

    Another 20 minutes or so go by and then I'm taken to a cell to rot for a while. I sit in there for what I estimate to be about 2 hours. (They took my watch) OJ comes back and says he's taking me down the hall for booking. I ask him what they're charging me with and he says 12025. Yes, apparently now he has 3 witnesses who will swear they "saw me carrying concealed". Not sure how that one works, but I'm guessing he doesn't either. I tell him in polite words that he knows as well as I do that he's full of shyte. Seems he IS familiar with the 5A however, because he opted to shut his lying, cowardly mouth at this point.

    They booked me for 12025. I called my wife once I got access to a phone, and she arranged bail. When I was released around midnight, my wife tells me that some of the guys on OCDO had already started planning an OC event in support of me at the location in which I was arrested. I felt amazed and humbled by how quickly these guys had planned this event, as well as the outpouring of support from them and so many others on OCDO.

    The next portion of this story (as many of you have already seen), is available forreading on here in a thread entitled "UOC event in San Pedro". I'm gonna stop this for now, as I'm a bit tired of typing this long-ass story. I will continue later with more post-jail segments of this in this thread. Also I'd just like to again thank everyone who had my back in this. I'm grateful.

    Mike Hunt




  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    Thanks for the briefing. This just totally burns me!

    Some more of the "kings soldiers" at work.

    Let me know where I can send some money to help with your legal fees.


    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Way to go Mike! I'm shaking my head over the whole idiocy of the LAPD's actions. "Take him in for 148 boys! We'll show you for remaining silent. By the way, lemme read you your rights, you have the right to remain silent...." Soooooo dumb.

    Sigh.

    Well, this sounds like a pretty open and shut case. I wonder if they actually have witnesses that will perjure themselves. Hopefully they'll end up in the can for a long time if they dare do so.

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    With the evidence Mike has I doubt the DA has charged anything. Giv'emh e double L Mike.



    artwork by Oleg Volk:

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Sons of Liberty wrote:
    Thanks for the briefing. This just totally burns me!

    Some more of the "kings soldiers" at work.

    Let me know where I can send some money to help with your legal fees.

    Well it hasn't been easy, but I'm working on the legal $$$ issues through other means. I appreciate the thought though.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    Way to go Mike! I'm shaking my head over the whole idiocy of the LAPD's actions. "Take him in for 148 boys! We'll show you for remaining silent. By the way, lemme read you your rights, you have the right to remain silent...." Soooooo dumb.

    Sigh.

    Well, this sounds like a pretty open and shut case. I wonder if they actually have witnesses that will perjure themselves. Hopefully they'll end up in the can for a long time if they dare do so.
    They'll learn, they'll learn.....

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    LAPD should have learned after arresting this OCDO member two years ago. No charges were filed and the LA County DA later issued a "legal update"/memo on UOC. (the DA got Hiibel wrong but oh well for them).

    So OJ,with 23 years on the force, sawed-off, and Militiahave no excuse for breaking the law under color of authority and possibly conspiring towrite a false police report.



    artwork by Oleg Volk:

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    I don't understand why you just don't identify yourself and just take civil action later. I guess it's principle and the "Us Vs Them" mentality at work that I've heard so much about. Or maybe it's because we would rather go to jail and have our nights ruined just to try to make a point.

    If I were OC'ing, I'd do everything the same but give up the information after realizing they're not going to bend. It's not worth my freedom, there are other ways of dealing with it. But that's just me.

    Sucks that this happened to you though.

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    bogeyx5 wrote:
    I don't understand why you just don't identify yourself and just take civil action later. I guess it's principle and the "Us Vs Them" mentality at work that I've heard so much about. Or maybe it's because we would rather go to jail and have our nights ruined just to try to make a point.

    If I were OC'ing, I'd do everything the same but give up the information after realizing they're not going to bend. It's not worth my freedom, there are other ways of dealing with it. But that's just me.

    Sucks that this happened to you though.
    We are all on the same side. Some (on both sides) just don't see that yet. There is a learning curve here which should have been settled law 200 years ago. But it wasn't so we (in LE)are all going to have to learn by playing catch up. Usually we are dealing with BGs so what is s.o.p. (for some)doesn't get challenged often. But with law abiding citizens some LEOs are going to go too far and run afoul of settled 4th A case law.



    more Oleg Volk!!!

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    bogeyx5 wrote:
    I don't understand why you just don't identify yourself and just take civil action later. I guess it's principle and the "Us Vs Them" mentality at work that I've heard so much about. Or maybe it's because we would rather go to jail and have our nights ruined just to try to make a point.

    If I were OC'ing, I'd do everything the same but give up the information after realizing they're not going to bend. It's not worth my freedom, there are other ways of dealing with it. But that's just me.

    Sucks that this happened to you though.
    Not sure what you mean by this.

    Nevermind, I got it. Had a brain fart.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Mike Hunt wrote:
    bigtoe416 wrote:
    Way to go Mike! I'm shaking my head over the whole idiocy of the LAPD's actions. "Take him in for 148 boys! We'll show you for remaining silent. By the way, lemme read you your rights, you have the right to remain silent...." Soooooo dumb.

    Sigh.

    Well, this sounds like a pretty open and shut case. I wonder if they actually have witnesses that will perjure themselves. Hopefully they'll end up in the can for a long time if they dare do so.
    They'll learn, they'll learn.....
    For all the newbies out there (as well as the veterans who still don't carry recording devices) this is how its done. I guarantee you had Mike not had his recording devices he would be facing serious, costly charges. This is a classic example of how the rotten LEO's will jack you up and when it's all over you've got tens of thousands in legal bills and lost gun rights for 10 years...at best.

    Mike, sorry this happened to you, major kudos for being prepared and having your recording devices gathering evidence (a.k.a. THE TRUTH). You're a great example of maintaining composure, asserting your rights, and being a good ambassador for the cause.

    Go get 'em, teach them the lessons they deserve,and give 'em hell. Carry on!


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    bogeyx5 wrote:
    I don't understand why you just don't identify yourself and just take civil action later. I guess it's principle and the "Us Vs Them" mentality at work that I've heard so much about. Or maybe it's because we would rather go to jail and have our nights ruined just to try to make a point.

    If I were OC'ing, I'd do everything the same but give up the information after realizing they're not going to bend. It's not worth my freedom, there are other ways of dealing with it. But that's just me.

    Sucks that this happened to you though.
    Not to re-hash too much here, but you'll notice this guy had already claimed he knew who I was. When he started hounding me for I.D. and claiming he DIDN'T know who I was only moments later, I got a strong suspicion that he was lying to me. On top of that, the whole thing kicks off with them brandishing their guns to me and throwing me in cuffs. So it was not I who set the hostile mood of this encounter, nor was it I who was in the "us vs. them" mentality to begin with.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    These guys are going to get such a spanking. Give 'em hell, Mike. Hope you get your gun back soon but they could theoretically keep it for up to a year "while charges are pending". Statute is 1 year for misd 12025.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    bogeyx5 wrote:
    I don't understand why you just don't identify yourself and just take civil action later. I guess it's principle and the "Us Vs Them" mentality at work that I've heard so much about. Or maybe it's because we would rather go to jail and have our nights ruined just to try to make a point.

    If I were OC'ing, I'd do everything the same but give up the information after realizing they're not going to bend. It's not worth my freedom, there are other ways of dealing with it. But that's just me.

    Sucks that this happened to you though.
    Yes. Most of us (most likely even me included) would not have the guts to exercise their rights the way MH did.

    Still, what he did was extremely admirable, and he is very lucky to have an intelligent and understanding wife.

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    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    coolusername2007 wrote:
    For all the newbies out there (as well as the veterans who still don't carry recording devices) this is how its done. I guarantee you had Mike not had his recording devices he would be facing serious, costly charges. This is a classic example of how the rotten LEO's will jack you up and when it's all over you've got tens of thousands in legal bills and lost gun rights for 10 years...at best.


    +1000 on this, Coolusername2007. This is almost word for word something that I was told by the Right People yesterday. Yes, it's a crying shame that an American should have to cover his arse this thoroughly, but it only takes one bad apple cop to make you regret not being prepared. Wether you carry a $140 Hi-Point or $2000 Kimber, make double damn sure your audio/video equipment is of quality.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    2009_gunner wrote:
    bogeyx5 wrote:
    I don't understand why you just don't identify yourself and just take civil action later. I guess it's principle and the "Us Vs Them" mentality at work that I've heard so much about. Or maybe it's because we would rather go to jail and have our nights ruined just to try to make a point.

    If I were OC'ing, I'd do everything the same but give up the information after realizing they're not going to bend. It's not worth my freedom, there are other ways of dealing with it. But that's just me.

    Sucks that this happened to you though.
    Yes. Most of us (most likely even me included) would not have the guts to exercise their rights the way MH did.

    Still, what he did was extremely admirable, and he is very lucky to have an intelligent and understanding wife.
    Yeah she's pretty dern cool. Think I'll hang on to her.

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    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Mike's "mistake" IMO (not that a LAC should have to worry - but we do in reality) is that he UOCed solo on a bike to get there (that is a lot of "rope" availablefor a creative LEO to use). And I wish there had been more plannedfriendlies around in the coffee shop. Very happy to see you able to talk about this.

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    this is an exact situation to where all of us need to have an attorney ready to take a case like this. You do everything right but still get screwed. Hopefully you can take LAPD through the ringer and buy yourself a new car and house when you are done with them. I have a feeling that the situation is very similar to a guy here in Chico was was arrested for delaying the investigation of police officers.

    I guess from a police officers point of view... you were delaying their investigation.. but your rights come first. Honestly that is why I haven't UOCed.. just CC with my ccw.

    Keep us up to date for sure. Also.. a lot of coffee shops do have video monitoring systems in place. I would think that you could get video of you carrying exposed. I imagine you've started an internal investigations inquiry and I wonder if a call to the FBI would be warranted for police corruption with making up charges and violation of rights.

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    crash5150 wrote:
    I guess from a police officers point of view... you were delaying their investigation..
    The investigation was over. They checked his gun and found it to be unloaded. He didn't resist or delay them checking his firearm's loaded status. They had no other probable cause or suspicion beyond that to investigate.

    The police officers thought they could do anything they want, including making up the law on the spot, and if Mike didn't go along with it they were going to arrest him for something, which they did. They were wrong, and hopefully, they will find out just how wrong they were.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

  21. #21
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    They violated People vs DeLong right off the bat. They made it a detention (hands over head then cuffs) rather then an unintrusive "inspection". Still a 4th A (Terry vs Ohio) violation but DeLong and 12031 (e) stand 'for now' in Ca statecourts.

    12031e's days are numbered!!! :celebrate

  22. #22
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    Damn Mike, you weren't kidding about this. I cannot believe that these people are trusted with a spoon, much less a gun.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    Damn Mike, you weren't kidding about this. I cannot believe that these people are trusted with a spoon, much less a gun.
    Yeah it boggles the mind as to how people like that can get ahold of a badge.

  24. #24
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Guys in their defense (which is very hard to do)...This could have been me when I started out. Glad it wasn't but this is a HUGE training issue the dept should have handled a long time ago. The department hasfailed them and hung themand LACs out to dry by fostering an unfounded fear of lawful gun carry. If there was justice I could see prison time for the offenders.

    Yes they broke the law but I don't relish a victory here when this was avoidable with proper training and attitude by that dept. But since it happened let the chips fall if they will.

  25. #25
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Given the history of the LAPD in regards to their general disregard for civil rights and the boundaries of the law, I have very good reason to believe that the behavior of the officers was not only deliberate, but in fact it was most likely within their departmental training and policy. I would love nothing more than a federal 1983 suit to discover just how deep the rabbit hole goes. I sense another consent decree in their future.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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