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Thread: Gun shipment under investigation

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/0...k=omni_popular


    Customs officials at the Port of Tacoma seized a shipment of 30 pellet guns that officials say could have been modified into machine guns.

    An investigation is under way after U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers discovered the Airsoft guns Feb. 8 in a suspicious-looking container. The shipment, labeled “Toys and Parts,” was worth about $10,000 and arrived at the port in October from a manufacturer in Taiwan, Customs and Border Protection spokesman Doug McBride said.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives determined that the rifles were equipped to shoot plastic balls but could be converted into machine guns firing live ammunition.

    “You couldn’t tell by weight or feel” that the guns were fake, ATF spokeswoman Cheryl Bishop said. “Most people would be hard-pressed to tell the difference, and that’s why we were so concerned.”

    The metal pellet guns had the same size, weight and appearance of an M-4 automatic rifle, the weapon used by the U.S. military. The rifles did not have serial numbers on them, as real guns would, but they also did not have the orange-blaze tip required for all imported toy guns.

    “You could slide a magazine in there. They load and charge very realistically, very much like the real thing,” Bishop said.

    The ATF also determined that the shipment did not arrive with the proper permits to enter the United States. The guns will be destroyed.

    Joyce Chen: 253-597-8426

    joyce.chen@thenewstribune.com
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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    I wonder who was ordering all these and if they are a new type of model. I guess the better question would be how these were manufactured to "easily" shoot live ammunition and why.

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    Regular Member Just Us's Avatar
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    At first these where on the TV news as airsoft guns and now they are pellet guns. CO2 powered. One says paperwork inline as they are toys. Now it's not inline. They need to make up their minds.

    Going to hold the rest of my comments to myself!


    On Second thought:

    These lonely, homely, sad people with nothing to do with their lives need to go back to their soap operas. And they need to not go buy these TOYS for their kids if they dont want to supervise them and then blame the TOY manufacturers!!!!

    Now I'll hold the rest to myself!!!

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    I wonder if these (whatever they ares) were intended for Chief Pillo of the Bellevue PD because they are so easily converted to machine guns. :celebrate

    MD

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    "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms found that the rifles were tooled to shoot plastic balls, but replacement of internal components with original machine gun components would render the rifles capable of firing live ammunition."

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35568413


    Yeah, so... the replacement of any semi-auto AR parts with full-auto parts would be the same problem... The premise for their justification seems weak...

    Having no serial numbers is the bigger problem...

    What's to stop someone fromdoingthat now if they wanted to? I have no idea how easy it would be to get the required full auto parts on the black market, but it doesn't seem like full auto parts arevery available to anyone except Class 3 holders.


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    Why monkey around with the hassle of getting a Class III license?

    I'm gettin' me an Airsoft! :celebrate

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    *** double post deleted ***

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Wow... I get it now. Damn, even I was misled to believe these were actually very dangerous. It was before I had any coffee this morning though.
    ...and LMAO about the comment Machoduck posted. That's enterttainment!!!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    ive done some readin up on full auto stuff and nfa rules and batf laws,,
    IIRC as long as you dont have an AR15, you can buy, off the internet, an auto sear and own it all legal like.
    you can have the ar15,,, or you can have an auto sear,,,, just not at the same time!
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    Customs officials at the Port of Tacoma seized a shipment of 30 pellet guns that officials say could have been modified into machine guns.

    ATF determined that the rifles were equipped to shoot plastic balls but could be converted into machine guns firing live ammunition.

    The metal pellet guns had the same size, weight and appearance of an M-4 automatic rifle

    You could slide a magazine in there. They load and charge very realistically, very much like the real thing
    Soooooo.....?

    The lack of orange tip marking is bad because we say no but everything else looks okay to me.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    nevermind

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    Pellet guns don't come with orange tips as far as I know. I've bought several, that didn't have the orange tips.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Ok, I haven't kept up with modern pellet guns and am not an AR expert so this just sounds like BS to me. Is that really possible without just a huge amount of tooling?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Sounds like ATF was desperate to make a monthly quota or something....

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    Regular Member Chris.R.Anderson's Avatar
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    Sooooo....

    Problem #1 What do they make these out of? Aluminum at the BEST, if not just plastic. How much fully auto live ammo would that stand up to? None.

    Problem #2 To make this problem feasible for discussion we must assume problem #1 is non-existent. How accurate would they be? I say we let the bad guys have these. I would rather have them shooting at me with these things than with any single shot or semi auto handgun held sideways-gangbanger style. IF the bullet cleared the aluminum/plastic barrel it would immediately begin to tumble and miss the target.

    I could continue this, but I just don't see the point... LOL

    I say if anyone is dumb enough to want them for non-airsoft, let them have it, better that then they convert a real AR-15.

    It's just too funny (and sad) what the government will freak out over. SOMEONE please grow some common sense!

    CRA
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    pics of the shipment...


    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Basically you'd have to gut the entire gun and replace ALL contact parts (including barrel, moving mechanisms, magazine, etc.) to make it fire live rounds. You would also have to have class III parts to use to make it automatic. There is more work involved than anybody would want to go through. It's about the equivalent of making a moped into a high class drag racer. (Provided if they made a moped that looked like a drag bike) Yes, it's possible but they are not remotely close. I don't really believe it's possible and would defeat any reliability of the gun. I do know it's possible to put a certain .22 in an airsoft frame, but there is a lot of work and you must first have a whole gun to begin with the exception of the stock.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Aryk45XD wrote:
    Basically you'd have to gut the entire gun and replace ALL contact parts (including barrel, moving mechanisms, magazine, etc.) to make it fire live rounds. You would also have to have class III parts to use to make it automatic. There is more work involved than anybody would want to go through. It's about the equivalent of making a moped into a high class drag racer. (Provided if they made a moped that looked like a drag bike) Yes, it's possible but they are not remotely close. I don't really believe it's possible and would defeat any reliability of the gun. I do know it's possible to put a certain .22 in an airsoft frame, but there is a lot of work and you must first have a whole gun to begin with the exception of the stock.
    So you are saying you could convert my Ford Pinto into a Shelby Mustang GT500 if we had all the parts for a Shelby? Great! <sarcasm off>
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    Aryk45XD wrote: So you are saying you could convert my Ford Pinto into a Shelby Mustang GT500 if we had all the parts for a Shelby? Great! <sarcasm off>
    Yep, but it would be illegal because the the licensing office wont register it cause it has a Pinto v.i.n. #

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    Regular Member Johnny Law's Avatar
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    On a related sidenote, about a year ago a shipment of "airsoft" ak-47's were seized in the port as well. They came out of China, and the problem was thatthey had taken apart real surplus ak's and built the airsoft guns on a functionalfull auto ak receiver. First off, the receiver is illegal of course, and secondly, any estute person could quickly recognize these receiversfor what they really were, and build a real gun from them.
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    The only way I could remotely believe any of this would be if somehow the lower receiver was an exact copy of a regular lower receiver onto which an upper could be attached. And what company would go into that much detail for what is basically a toy?
    I also read on anther forum where the retail on these airsoft guns was $350. Who would pay $350 for a toy lower receiver when you could get a real one for much less?

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    No FFL required for a "toy"

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    No FFL required for a "toy"
    That's a good point. I forgot that criminals were notorious for buying guns legally, especially through FFLs.

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    ...... I also read on anther forum where the retail on these airsoft guns was $350. Who would pay $350 for a toy lower receiver when you could get a real one for much less?
    When you are talking about this amount of money - you are not looking at just a toy.

    The ones used for LEO training can run as high as $750-$1200.

    Same weight, function just shoots 6mm airsoft pellets. Bag of 3000 usually runs about $15 depending on the grade quality of the pellets.

    We have the luxury of owning and shooting the "real" thing but in other countries this is as close as many will get to owning a firearm. It's also a great training tool for CQB drills with multiple member entryteams.
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