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Gun shipment under investigation

Johnny Law

Johnny Law

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On a related sidenote, about a year ago a shipment of "airsoft" ak-47's were seized in the port as well. They came out of China, and the problem was thatthey had taken apart real surplus ak's and built the airsoft guns on a functionalfull auto ak receiver. First off, the receiver is illegal of course, and secondly, any estute person could quickly recognize these receiversfor what they really were, and build a real gun from them.
 
R

rickomatic

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The only way I could remotely believe any of this would be if somehow the lower receiver was an exact copy of a regular lower receiver onto which an upper could be attached. And what company would go into that much detail for what is basically a toy?
I also read on anther forum where the retail on these airsoft guns was $350. Who would pay $350 for a toy lower receiver when you could get a real one for much less?
 
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oldkim

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...... I also read on anther forum where the retail on these airsoft guns was $350. Who would pay $350 for a toy lower receiver when you could get a real one for much less?
Click to expand...
When you are talking about this amount of money - you are not looking at just a toy.

The ones used for LEO training can run as high as $750-$1200.

Same weight, function just shoots 6mm airsoft pellets. Bag of 3000 usually runs about $15 depending on the grade quality of the pellets.

We have the luxury of owning and shooting the "real" thing but in other countries this is as close as many will get to owning a firearm. It's also a great training tool for CQB drills with multiple member entryteams.
 
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PT111

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, South Carolina, USA
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Aryk45XD wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote: So you are saying you could convert my Ford Pinto into a Shelby Mustang GT500 if we had all the parts for a Shelby? Great! <sarcasm off>
Click to expand...
Yep, but it would be illegal because the the licensing office wont register it cause it has a Pinto v.i.n. #
Click to expand...

Not following you there as similar conversions take place quite regularly.

Edited to add in SC if the conversion is done for racing it is illegal to drive on the streets but otherwise you are pretty much free to go.
 
gogodawgs

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PT111 wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
Aryk45XD wrote: So you are saying you could convert my Ford Pinto into a Shelby Mustang GT500 if we had all the parts for a Shelby? Great! <sarcasm off>
Click to expand...
Yep, but it would be illegal because the the licensing office wont register it cause it has a Pinto v.i.n. #
Click to expand...

Not following you there as similar conversions take place quite regularly.

Edited to add in SC if the conversion is done for racing it is illegal to drive on the streets but otherwise you are pretty much free to go.
Click to expand...
I think we are just making fun of the 'toy' guns. With a machine shop I can pretty much do anything I want to convert any machine I want into anything I want.
 
U

uncoolperson

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sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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Johnny Law wrote:
On a related sidenote, about a year ago a shipment of "airsoft" ak-47's were seized in the port as well. They came out of China, and the problem was thatthey had taken apart real surplus ak's and built the airsoft guns on a functionalfull auto ak receiver. First off, the receiver is illegal of course, and secondly, any estute person could quickly recognize these receiversfor what they really were, and build a real gun from them.
Click to expand...
I don't have an AR, but is there any difference between a illegal fully auto receiver and a legal semi-auto receiver for an AR? I was under the impression from my local gun shop that AR fits both. If that is wrong than You might be on to why they were confiscated.
 
T

Trigger Dr

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SVG,

You can take a full auto receiver and easily convert it to semi, by just changing a couple parts. Converting a semi autgo to full auto requires modification to the received and installing the correct parts.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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Trigger Dr wrote:
SVG,

You can take a full auto receiver and easily convert it to semi, by just changing a couple parts. Converting a semi autgo to full auto requires modification to the received and installing the correct parts.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, so the question would be than if these toys had receivers that could accept full auto parts? Maybe. I am just trying to wrap my head around why they would do this.

There are a few kids in my neighborhood that play airsoft with mine, and some of their toys feel and have the same weight as the real thing, I am actually fairly envious of the MP5 my kids best freind has.
 
cbpeck

cbpeck

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1245A Defender said:
ive done some readin up on full auto stuff and nfa rules and batf laws,,
IIRC as long as you dont have an AR15, you can buy, off the internet, an auto sear and own it all legal like.
you can have the ar15,,, or you can have an auto sear,,,, just not at the same time!
Click to expand...

IIRC, this is incorrect. Many states allow citizens to posses full auto weapons (i.e. Oregon), but Washington is not one of them. Washington residents are not allowed to purchase an auto sear. We're certainly allowed to purchase and use AR-15s, but I don't think this has any bearing on our inability to legally obtain an auto sear. If we were, I'd be spending a lot of money here:

www.autoweapons.com
 
D

devildoc5

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so wait a minute here... Just because something COULD be modified or changed and used in a way not originally intended it all the sudden gets stopped and investigated and the owners/shippers PROBABLY charged with a crime???!!!!????!!!

Perhaps we ought to investigate hairspray (COULD be used to huff and ruin brain cells), Knives (they can be used to slice someone up pretty bad), Model Rockets (can be used as IEDs), rubber cement (huffing), cars (manslaughter), bleach (can be used to make a chlorine bomb), various other home cleaning supplies (used to make incendiaries and explosives), etc. ad nauseum...

when are WE as a society going to STAND THE F@!# UP and not allow OUR government to do CRAP like this? We are not in some third world dictatorship (at least not openly), we are not communists (yet), and we have apparently lost ALL of our "intestinal fortitude".

Enough is ENOUGH!!
 
amlevin

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cbpeck said:
IIRC, this is incorrect. Many states allow citizens to posses full auto weapons (i.e. Oregon), but Washington is not one of them. Washington residents are not allowed to purchase an auto sear. We're certainly allowed to purchase and use AR-15s, but I don't think this has any bearing on our inability to legally obtain an auto sear. If we were, I'd be spending a lot of money here:

www.autoweapons.com
Click to expand...

You have another problem here. Any automatic weapon not listed on the NFA Registry is illegal to own by anyone in the US, regardless of State Law. If a weapon is not manufactured as an automatic weapon it is illegal to convert it to such. In Washington it is not just the auto sear for an AR-15 but the Selector, Auto Trigger, Auto Disconnect, Hammer with extra "hook", and the Full Auto Bolt carrier that are illegal to even posses. I won't go into details as advising one how to convert an AR-15 apparently is as illegal as doing it, but just "installing an auto-sear" isn't all that is required.

Note: according to a ATF letter that one of the AR-15 Mfr's had on their site, the "installation of an M-16 Bolt Carrier is not illegal if it does not render the firearm capable of full auto fire". Some prefer the M-16 bolt carrier due to its extra mass but I wouldn't want to try this if ANY of the other parts were present.
 
xxx.jakk.xxx

xxx.jakk.xxx

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I am an airsofter and was very avid when this happened. They stopped a shipment of Chinese airsoft M4s. These are made of light metals, have aluminum barrels and are completely different from a real gun. They are made to hold airsoft parts. The gearbox, motor, battery, etc. I currently own a KWA M4A1 that I modified with different aftermarket parts. It has the same weight and feel of a real gun but in no way could ever be modified without a new lower and upper receiver, new barrel as well as all new internals. The only things I can think of that could be used on a real AR-15/ M4 would be the Heatshields that I had to buy aftermarket which were real Magpul MOE ones. Nothing else would fit. I kind of hate the ATF...
 
TechnoWeenie

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amlevin said:
In Washington it is not just the auto sear for an AR-15 but the Selector, Auto Trigger, Auto Disconnect, Hammer with extra "hook", and the Full Auto Bolt carrier that are illegal to even posses.
Click to expand...


Almost every AR I've seen comes with a 'full auto bolt carrier'......

It's not a mystical/magical part, just easier to produce (and not illegal)
 
Last edited:
amlevin

amlevin

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TechnoWeenie said:
Almost every AR I've seen comes with a 'full auto bolt carrier'......

It's not a mystical/magical part, just easier to produce (and not illegal)
Click to expand...

Not from Bushmaster or Oly Arms. Theirs are all cut out at the rear or on the bottom. Their full auto bolt carriers are only available to properly licensed FFL's.

The last two I bought, one from Del-Ton and the other, an ADS has the "SP-1" Bolt carrier.
 
Last edited:
amlevin

amlevin

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TechnoWeenie said:
Almost every AR I've seen comes with a 'full auto bolt carrier'......

It's not a mystical/magical part, just easier to produce (and not illegal)
Click to expand...

Not from Bushmaster or Oly Arms. Theirs are all cut out at the rear. Their full auto bolt carriers are only available to properly licensed FFL's.

Here are some differences:

boltCarrier.gif



The material removed from the bottom of the carrier prevents the bolt from releasing the "auto sear" and prevents the weapon from "timing" for auto fire.
 
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massivedesign

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My LMT has a F/A Bolt carrier. But since I am lacking the rest of the parts to make it a F/A per the BATFE it's not illegal (in this case).

Now, also granted (and I will find the cite) that owning certain F/A parts is the same as owning a complete operable F/A gun...
 
amlevin

amlevin

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massivedesign said:
My LMT has a F/A Bolt carrier. But since I am lacking the rest of the parts to make it a F/A per the BATFE it's not illegal (in this case).

Now, also granted (and I will find the cite) that owning certain F/A parts is the same as owning a complete operable F/A gun...
Click to expand...

"The definition of machinegun also includes a combination of parts from which a machinegun can be
assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. An example of a firearm
meeting this section of the definition is a semiautomatic AR15 rifle possessed with an M16 bolt carrier,
hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector. If the semiautomatic AR15 is assembled with the described
M16 parts and the rifle is capable of fully automatic fire, the weapon possessed in conjunction with the
M16 parts, whether assembled or not, is a machinegun as defined.17"

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

You will also find at the ATF site a letter from their Technical division that states an M-16 bolt can be installed in an AR-16 as long as it does not cause the weapon to become a full automatic weapon.
 
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