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Thread: Open Carry in NM state parks?

  1. #1
    Regular Member SsevenN's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I'm a NM resident who was transplanted from NH about three years ago.

    I'm hoping to spend lots of time outdoors this summer in National and State parks.



    So, what's the deal with State Parks regarding Open Carry? And while I have peoples attention, what about BLM land? Is OC OK there too?



    Thanks in advance,

    7

  2. #2
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    SsevenN wrote:
    Hey guys, I'm a NM resident who was transplanted from NH about three years ago.

    I'm hoping to spend lots of time outdoors this summer in National and State parks.



    So, what's the deal with State Parks regarding Open Carry? And while I have peoples attention, what about BLM land? Is OC OK there too?



    Thanks in advance,

    7
    Stick to the Nat. Forrest and you won't have a problem. Nat. Parks require you to have a concealed permit to carry.

    State parks are OK unless posted no guns, but that's usually in the campground areas. To many idiots shooting up the neighborhood....

    BLM is public land, here it's OK unless posted. I've never seen BLM posted.
    If you're gonna use the public land for shooting, be sure you clean it up afterwords.

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    desert-prospector wrote:
    SsevenN wrote:
    Hey guys, I'm a NM resident who was transplanted from NH about three years ago.

    I'm hoping to spend lots of time outdoors this summer in National and State parks.



    So, what's the deal with State Parks regarding Open Carry? And while I have peoples attention, what about BLM land? Is OC OK there too?



    Thanks in advance,

    7
    Stick to the Nat. Forrest and you won't have a problem. Nat. Parks require you to have a concealed permit to carry.

    State parks are OK unless posted no guns, but that's usually in the campground areas. To many idiots shooting up the neighborhood....

    BLM is public land, here it's OK unless posted. I've never seen BLM posted.
    If you're gonna use the public land for shooting, be sure you clean it up afterwords.
    This is incorrect. Open carry in a national park is now allowed since NM allows open carry. The buildings in national parks should have signs posted saying no carrying inside the buildings.

    State parks do not allow any LOADED guns, open or concealed:

    New Mexico Outdoor Recreation Act
    Section 16-2-32 Criminal Offenses

    20 FIREARMS AND BOWS Possession of firearms with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism or the discharge of firearms, arrows and air or gas fired projectiles, weapons and any other device capable of causing injury to persons or animals or damage or destruction of property in any portion of the State Parks System is prohibited, except during designated hunting seasons or in authorized areas. No such activity shall be allowed within 300 yards of any developed park area or occupied campsite. This section does not apply to on duty law enforcement officials




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    castiel is correct.

    This is something we should work on in the 2011 Legislative Session. In an open carry state it is ridiculous to have State Parks as prohibited places for guns. Now that National Parks allow guns, it ought to be much easier to get NM Legislators to change this portion of the law. While some areas are going to always be off-limits we ought to be able to change this part of the law. Here is what I know as the current off-limits for guns. If anyone has a more complete or accurate list, please post it:

    Places You Cannot Carry CCW in New Mexico[/b]

    In New Mexico you can only carry one concealed handgun at any time. By law you cannot carry 2 or more firearms. The law states: “A licensee shall only carry one (1) concealed handgun at any given time.” You may carry another firearm if it is not concealed.





    You may NOT carry a handgun, openly or concealed, in:[/b]

    · Liquor establishments (fourth degree felony) unless you are: the owner/operator of the premises, a Law Enforcement Officer, a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act; provided that the licensed establishment does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises;

    · Preschools & Schools & University Premises …except inside the vehicle if you are older than 19 (fourth degree felony)

    · Courts, without the consent of the presiding judge (Fed., State, County, City, Tribal)

    · Tribal Land - unless authorized by the governing body of the tribe or pueblo

    · Public buses (misdemeanor)

    · On a snowmobile (unless there is no round in the chamber, petty misdemeanor)

    · Airport security zones

    · State parks

    · Federal Properties…Military Bases, Courthouse, National Monuments, etc.

    · On private property where the owner has posted signs indicating that you may not carry or if the owner tells you that you cannot



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    I did some research on Steve Aiken's site and was disturbed to find out how many states permit firearms in State Parks. Even California, New Jersy and Massachusetts permit firearms, but New Mexico does not. We need to get this fixed.

    Here is a summary:



    State Parks that permit firearms (source-thanks to Steve Aiken: http://www.handgunlaw.us/) :]

    1. Arizona (If not posted)

    2. Nevada (NAC 407.105)

    3. Oregon(Admin Rule736-010-0040)

    4. Washington (WAC 352-32-120)

    5. Idaho

    6. Montana (12.8.202 )

    7. Wyoming (G&F Comm. Regs.)

    8. Colorado (CRS 18-12-214 )

    9. Texas (TX Park & Wildlife Dept. Exec. Dir. Order No. 98-001)

    10. Oklahoma (§21-1277. But not in buildings)

    11. Kansas (If not posted)

    12. Nebraska (If not posted , NE St. Park Rules on Firearms )

    13. South Dakota (1-26-6.10 )

    14. North Dakota (62.1-02-05)

    15. Arkansas (Park Directive 3070 -Some Buildings are off Limits. They must be posted)

    16. Missouri (12.8.202)

    17. Minnesota (DNR Legal Update 7/03 )

    18. Tennessee

    19. Kentucky (KY St Park Regs.)

    20. Indiana (DNR Regs)

    21. Michigan (MCL 324.504 )

    22. Florida (790.25 )

    23. Georgia (O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127 Not in the buildings )

    24.Ohio (Buildings are off limits unless used as a comfort station)

    25. South Carolina (51-3-145 )

    26. Virginia (4VAC5-30-200)

    27. West Virginia (Per WVDNR )

    28. Pennsylvania

    29. Maine (Per DIF&W; No Carry in Baxter State Park)
    30. Vermont (Parks Reg 1.b.2.

    31. New Hampshire
    32. Massachusetts
    33. Connecticut (Dept of Environmental Protection Admin Rule 23-4-1 )

    34. New Jersey

    35. Maryland

    36. District of Columbia
    37. Alaska (AS 11.61.220 )

    38. California (with CCW permit)

    NOTE:
    1. New Mexico does not permit firearms in State Parks per Admin Code 19.5.2.20

    2. Louisiana does not permit firearms in State Parks per Admin Code Title 25 Part IX Chpt. 1 §31]

    3. Iowa does not permit firearms in State Parks per 724.4A

    4. Mississippi does not permit firearms in State Parks per Sec. 45-9-101

    5. Illinois does not permit firearms in State Parks

    6. Wisconsin does not permit firearms in State Parks per 29.089

    7. Alabama does not permit firearms in State Parks per Admin Code 220-5-.08

    8. North Carolina does not permit firearms in State Parks per 15A NCAC 12B .0901

    9. New Yorkdoes not permit firearms in State Parks per 375.1 (p) NY St Parks Rules & Regulation

    10. Rhode Island does not permit firearms in State Parks per Park Rules and Regs Rule VIII Sec. 11 11.1
    11. Delaware does not permit firearms in State Parks per State Park Regs




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    Hawaii is not listed anywhere above, but that's understandable: They don't permit anything, no way and nohow!

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Galveston and El Paso, Texas)

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    snoball wrote:
    Places You Cannot Carry CCW in New Mexico[/b]

    You may NOT carry a handgun, openly or concealed, in:[/b]


    · On a snowmobile (unless there is no round in the chamber, petty misdemeanor)
    We got the snowmobile prohibition repealed several years ago. No longer prohibited in Statute.

    No plans at themoment for 2011 but NOTHING related to firearms in NM is easy to change in our laws. We have a democratic, leftest legislature, which we have had for years, and any positive changes to legislation requires an unusually hard fought battle.

    Give me a legislature that is REASONABLE to work with, has some common sense, and I'll make sure we fix the issues in our laws - both open and concealed. With what we have now - it's a different ballgame.

    Sorry to sound pessimistic but the facts speak for themselves.

    Steve Aikens.

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    I am willing to bet that we do not have a Democrat for governor after this fall. Looks like Richardson has not only tanked himself, but Denish as well.

    Looking at the lopsided view of states that permit guns in parks, I am willing to start the letter campaign this fall when they get ready for 2011.

    Steve- thanks for all the time you spent there this year. The changes would not happen without you.

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    [rant]

    The Governor is not where the problem is. The problem is in the legislature.

    If we New Mexico residents don't start taking a more active role in our elections, don't start researching the ideals of the candidates to make sure they honestly support our ideals, aren't just giving us lip-service to get elected and don't make certain those we elect are going to work toward those ideals against the legislators that oppose us - we have no justification for criticizing those we elect or complaining when we can't fix what we know for a fact is broken in our laws. If we want a more powerful voice in how our state is governed, it's up to us to actively and aggressively campaign for those candidates to get them working for us.

    New Mexico is a democratic controlled state because that's the way the electorate keeps voting. The most politically active area of the state is in Bernalillo county with 603 precincts. The majority of voters there are democratic yet if you ask the average person on the street what party they support, you get a different answer than expected. Why? Pretty simple - people vote for the incumbent or don't vote at all.

    When you have a legislative council service that takes data from USA Today and the George Soros website to construct official reports on firearms data and represents that data is representative of data from a national source - you have a problem. Think I'm kidding? Hit this link - now scroll down to the bottom for their "sources".

    It's up to us to change what's broken in our state. Sitting on our butts and posting complaints on forums about what needs to be changed won't get that done.

    Get active in your neighborhoods - elect legislators that are willing to work FOR you, not AGAINST you.

    [/rant]

    Steve Aikens




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    IMO, demographics is a big problem when it comes to voting, too. I'm talking about Hispanics who traditionally are knee-jerk Democrat voters. Same for blacks. So whileI agree the average voter is in most cases voting ignorantly (ortrivially, basedon looks, what the politician wears, what they give lip-service to but don't really believe (pandering), etc.) -- I'm not sure that educatingsuch airhead votersto research candidatein order to vote intelligently/informedwill work.

    I mean WTH can you do with a Yellow Dog Democrat? And if they increase in numbers in a state, it only gets worse: More solidly Democrat (one reason Democrat politicianssell out America to court Hispanic voters).In West Texas (El Paso for excellent example), Hispanics are the majority (big-time) and they vote Democrat. NM is similar, at least in the lower 2/3rdsof the state...(not sure how American Indians vote in Northern NM, the pueblo areas -- also Democrat?).

    So how canthings possibly be turned around being so greatly outnumbered?

    I'm not saying give up -- that just makes it easier for them --but I don't see how you can do anything with airhead, ignorant (or stupid) people who vote Democrat as a matter of tradition, with no regard for anything else and no interest in or respect for "educated" voting.

    As I have said before, given the demographics of NM and its liberal Democrat voting tradition (which I believe has a positive correlation), I am suprised it even has OC, let alone CC.

    Yet by having OC,I have tosay that NM beats Texas.

    -- John D
    (formerly of Galveston and El Paso, Texas)

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    Texas is always much vaunted but has really restrictive gun rules/laws. I think it's because the lame stream media likes to associate Texas with tough and tough with guns....I don't know, but I've never been very impressed with Texas gun laws.

    The Navajo indians in this state tend to run very democratic, due to the amount of "social programs" that they get doled out by the Dems in the Federal & State Government, yetthe restof San Juan County votes republican, enough that it usually offsets the indian vote.

    The same can be said for the voter block thatspans the Rio Grande Corridor from Espanola south to Las Cruces. They vote for relatives and incumbents that the family has voted on for years....no thinking or questions asked.

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    SsevenN wrote:
    Hey guys, I'm a NM resident who was transplanted from NH about three years ago.

    I'm hoping to spend lots of time outdoors this summer in National and State parks.



    So, what's the deal with State Parks regarding Open Carry? And while I have peoples attention, what about BLM land? Is OC OK there too?



    Thanks in advance,

    7
    That's odd, I just transplanted from Nashua, 3.5 years ago myself..

    Anyhow, I use BLM Land to go shooting often, just find myself driving out pretty far, for obvious reasons..

    Also you can shoot near the prison off I-40 West, I guess no one seems to mind.. I use my M91 out there. .

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    snoball wrote:
    I did some research on Steve Aiken's site and was disturbed to find out how many states permit firearms in State Parks. Even California, New Jersy and Massachusetts permit firearms, but New Mexico does not. We need to get this fixed.

    Here is a summary:



    State Parks that permit firearms (source-thanks to Steve Aiken: http://www.handgunlaw.us/) :]

    1. Arizona (If not posted)

    2. Nevada (NAC 407.105)

    3. Oregon(Admin Rule736-010-0040)

    4. Washington (WAC 352-32-120)

    5. Idaho

    6. Montana (12.8.202 )

    7. Wyoming (G&F Comm. Regs.)

    8. Colorado (CRS 18-12-214 )

    9. Texas (TX Park & Wildlife Dept. Exec. Dir. Order No. 98-001)

    10. Oklahoma (§21-1277. But not in buildings)

    11. Kansas (If not posted)

    12. Nebraska (If not posted , NE St. Park Rules on Firearms )

    13. South Dakota (1-26-6.10 )

    14. North Dakota (62.1-02-05)

    15. Arkansas (Park Directive 3070 -Some Buildings are off Limits. They must be posted)

    16. Missouri (12.8.202)

    17. Minnesota (DNR Legal Update 7/03 )

    18. Tennessee

    19. Kentucky (KY St Park Regs.)

    20. Indiana (DNR Regs)

    21. Michigan (MCL 324.504 )

    22. Florida (790.25 )

    23. Georgia (O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127 Not in the buildings )

    24.Ohio (Buildings are off limits unless used as a comfort station)

    25. South Carolina (51-3-145 )

    26. Virginia (4VAC5-30-200)

    27. West Virginia (Per WVDNR )

    28. Pennsylvania

    29. Maine (Per DIF&W; No Carry in Baxter State Park)
    30. Vermont (Parks Reg 1.b.2.

    31. New Hampshire
    32. Massachusetts
    33. Connecticut (Dept of Environmental Protection Admin Rule 23-4-1 )

    34. New Jersey

    35. Maryland

    36. District of Columbia
    37. Alaska (AS 11.61.220 )

    38. California (with CCW permit)

    NOTE:
    1. New Mexico does not permit firearms in State Parks per Admin Code 19.5.2.20

    2. Louisiana does not permit firearms in State Parks per Admin Code Title 25 Part IX Chpt. 1 §31]

    3. Iowa does not permit firearms in State Parks per 724.4A

    4. Mississippi does not permit firearms in State Parks per Sec. 45-9-101

    5. Illinois does not permit firearms in State Parks

    6. Wisconsin does not permit firearms in State Parks per 29.089

    7. Alabama does not permit firearms in State Parks per Admin Code 220-5-.08

    8. North Carolina does not permit firearms in State Parks per 15A NCAC 12B .0901

    9. New Yorkdoes not permit firearms in State Parks per 375.1 (p) NY St Parks Rules & Regulation

    10. Rhode Island does not permit firearms in State Parks per Park Rules and Regs Rule VIII Sec. 11 11.1
    11. Delaware does not permit firearms in State Parks per State Park Regs


    Snoball, you have my support. I would love to be able to carry in state parks. What can I, as an Individual living in Farmington, do to help?

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    TO: SsevenN

    Next year when we have a long legislative session, we will have to do a letter writing campaign. I am positive that our representatives will change the law to permit carry in state parks because now national parks have changed the law and we are among the few states that ban guns in state parks. I usually carry anyway, but it is better to get the law changed.


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    castiel wrote:
    Open carry in a national park is now allowed since NM allows open carry. The buildings in national parks should have signs posted saying no carrying inside the buildings.

    State parks do not allow any LOADED guns, open or concealed:

    New Mexico Outdoor Recreation Act
    Section 16-2-32 Criminal Offenses

    20 FIREARMS AND BOWS Possession of firearms with a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism or the discharge of firearms, arrows and air or gas fired projectiles, weapons and any other device capable of causing injury to persons or animals or damage or destruction of property in any portion of the State Parks System is prohibited, except during designated hunting seasons or in authorized areas. No such activity shall be allowed within 300 yards of any developed park area or occupied campsite. This section does not apply to on duty law enforcement officials


    I am inclined to agree with this interpretation of the law but there is some room for question.

    While the pertinent federal amendment basically states that National Parks would allow what ever state law allows, in the case of New Mexico, State law does not allow forcarry in State Parks, and it could be argued that the state would naturally expect the same law to apply to National Parks in their state. While I agree that the pertinent state law does not specifically include National parks in its wording, and, as such, should not be considered to apply, I feel there are those who WOULD use this line of thought in an attempt to prohibitcarry in NM's National Parks, as well.

    Ultimately, I agree thatboth OC and CC (with permit)is currently legal in NM National Parks, since there is no state statute that clearly addresses National Parks, but in light of the statescarry ban in State Parks, I see the challenge on the horizon.

    One specific place I am curious to see what the DOI decided on is Carlsbad Caverns. There was talk that since the caves are controlled access, they might be considered restricted areas, just as other buildings. I am anxious to see what the final decision was, but I can't find anything on it. If anyone know, please post it.

    Doc

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    I do not have it handy here, but the National Park service already issued guidelines for Carlsbad Caverns. NO guns in caverns and visitor center. They ignored NM ban in state parks and approved guns in all NM National Parks. Done deal. We just have to fix the stupied NM state park ban.

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    snoball wrote:
    TO: SsevenN

    Next year when we have a long legislative session, we will have to do a letter writing campaign. I am positive that our representatives will change the law to permit carry in state parks because now national parks have changed the law and we are among the few states that ban guns in state parks. I usually carry anyway, but it is better to get the law changed.
    I'm the same way, with the carry thing...



    Anyway count me in, I'll be around the forums, hopefully we can get some grassroots support and really blow the lid off this thing.



    Thanks again,

    7

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    Quote Originally Posted by SsevenN View Post
    Hey guys, I'm a NM resident who was transplanted from NH about three years ago.

    I'm hoping to spend lots of time outdoors this summer in National and State parks.
    Good question, after reading some of the replies here I'm surprised there' no mention of the State Constitution.
    The State Constitution says:
    Art 2, Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.]
    No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and
    defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but
    nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No
    municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep
    and bear arms.

    Therefore, regardless of whatever this Admin Code says, it cannot be illegal to openly carry in the state parks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMConstitution
    Art II, Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.]
    No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.
    Quote Originally Posted by snoball View Post
    You may NOT carry a handgun, openly or concealed, in:
    1 Liquor establishments (fourth degree felony) unless you are: the owner/operator of the premises, a Law Enforcement Officer, a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act; provided that the licensed establishment does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises;

    2 Preschools & Schools & University Premises …except inside the vehicle if you are older than 19 (fourth degree felony)

    3 Courts, without the consent of the presiding judge (Fed., State, County, City, Tribal)

    4 Tribal Land - unless authorized by the governing body of the tribe or pueblo

    5 Public buses (misdemeanor)

    6 On a snowmobile (unless there is no round in the chamber, petty misdemeanor)

    7 Airport security zones

    8 State parks

    9 Federal Properties (Military Bases, Courthouse, National Monuments, etc.)

    10 On private property where the owner has posted signs indicating that you may not carry or if the owner tells you that you cannot
    1..8 are all invalid in a plain-text reading of Art 2, Sec 6 of the State Constitution; also the "University Premises" is only a petty misdemeanor, not a felony.
    9 is a whole `nother can-of-worms; but suffice it to be said that the Federal Constitution's Second Amendment is rather unique in that it is written in the Passive Voice; this means that the actor is irrelevant and the subject is the action [of infringing on the right of the people to keep and bear arms].
    10 is rather common sense, however reading Art 2, Sec 4 it could be grounds for the property-owner to shoot you if you do not comply.
    Quote Originally Posted by NMConstitution
    Art II, Sec. 4. [Inherent rights.]
    All persons are born equally free, and have certain natural, inherent and inalienable rights, among which are the rights of enjoying and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and of seeking and obtaining safety and happiness.

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    Georgia Code 16-11-127 allows Carry in Public Buildings located in ALL Local and State Parks, but Federal Buildings in their Parks would be govenrned under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 930.

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    Mr. Steve Aikens:

    Who needs to be elected to fix what is wrong with New Mexico?

    Would you please enumerate some Persons who you think would be able to fix what is wrong in New Mexico?

    Furthermore, since this Forum pertains to Firearms, what do you think the New Mexico Legislature will move to do next 60-day Legislative Session, concerning Firearms, coming up in 2011?

    aadvark

    P.S.: I would Personally like to see the New Mexican Legislature Repeal the Prohibition contained under NMS 30-7-2.4, NMS 30-7-3, and NMS 30-7-13.
    Last edited by aadvark; 09-30-2010 at 01:02 PM.

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    Question

    I know this isn't the OP's question, but looks like a good place to put this.

    I went camping at Elephant Butte Lake, it's a NM state park. I am a concealed carry permit holder in TX and I wanted to know if I could carry.

    I found this - http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/prd/doc...NDWILDLIFE.pdf

    19.5.2.20 FIREARMS AND BOWS:
    A. Visitors shall not possess firearms, including concealed firearms, with a cartridge in any portion of
    the mechanism or discharge firearms, including concealed firearms, except during designated hunting seasons or in
    authorized areas. No such activity is allowed within 300 yards of a developed park area or occupied campsite.
    Subsection A of 19.5.2.20 NMAC does not apply to on duty law enforcement officials.
    B. Visitors shall not use arrows, bolts and air or gas fired projectiles, weapons and other devices
    capable of causing injury to persons or animals or damage or destruction of property in the state parks system,
    except during designated hunting seasons or in authorized areas. Except for park authorized events and activities, no
    such activity is allowed within 100 yards of a developed park area or occupied campsite. Subsection B of 19.5.2.20
    NMAC does not apply to on duty law enforcement officials.
    [19.5.2.20 NMAC - Rp, 19.5.2.20 NMAC, 1/1/2008; A, 12/30/2010]
    I also called New Mexico State Parks Division (505-476-3355) just to be sure I understood this correctly. It's seems at first like it is saying that you cannot possess a firearm within 300 yards of a "developed park area or occupied campsite" - which I would be in.

    Upon further clarification, I now understand what it really means is that you cannot have a LOADED gun (so much easier to just say that). I asked if I could carry a gun and a loaded magazine. They said as long as it was not in the gun, it was not a problem.

    I figure I can accept that... at least if I really need it all I have to do is pop the mag in and charge it.

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    That's correct

    Quote Originally Posted by 99Mark7 View Post
    I know this isn't the OP's question, but looks like a good place to put this.

    I went camping at Elephant Butte Lake, it's a NM state park. I am a concealed carry permit holder in TX and I wanted to know if I could carry.

    I found this - http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/prd/doc...NDWILDLIFE.pdf



    I also called New Mexico State Parks Division (505-476-3355) just to be sure I understood this correctly. It's seems at first like it is saying that you cannot possess a firearm within 300 yards of a "developed park area or occupied campsite" - which I would be in.

    Upon further clarification, I now understand what it really means is that you cannot have a LOADED gun (so much easier to just say that). I asked if I could carry a gun and a loaded magazine. They said as long as it was not in the gun, it was not a problem.

    I figure I can accept that... at least if I really need it all I have to do is pop the mag in and charge it.
    Until the Legislature gets around to removing the restriction on State Park carry, I carry concealed and unloaded in State Parks.

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