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Thread: "No Weapons" because other people are stupid

  1. #1
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    I wrote to REI to let them know I was displeased with the "No Weapons" signage at one of their stores. Here is the response I got:

    received your feedback concerning REI Maple Grove this afternoon and I want to thank you for your comments.

    I made the decision to ban guns in my store in the spring in 2008 after my staff found a hand gun in a dressing room. This was in fact the third hand gun that was left in my store since we opened in October 2006. Above every duty and responsibility that I have in my job, the safety and security of my employees and customers is far and away the most important and one that I take very seriously. By asking my customers not to carry weapons in the store and training my staff on both Minnesota law and REI’s weapon safety policy, I am attempting to do just that.

    I completely understand that the right to carry a firearm is a topic that greatly divides people and I knew that by banning weapons I would receive comments from those who might take offense. At no time or for any reason am I making a statement on the right to bear and carry arms, in fact the State of Minnesota allows individuals who are trained and licensed to do so. I am sure that you are aware that the law that allows individuals to carry weapons also gives allowances to businesses and organizations to ask their patrons to not carry weapons on their property.

    I completely understand and respect your decision to shop elsewhere. I hope that you understand and respect my decision to ban weapons in my store.

    I know you said that our weapon ban would impact your buying decisions however if you want to discuss this issue I welcome the opportunity. Like I said, I anticipated comments on this policy and I try to be as open and transparent with my customers as possible.

    Sincerely,

    Sam Grubisich -- Store Manager
    REI co-op at the Fountains -- Maple Grove MN
    (p) 763.493.7861 (f) 763.49.2351
    sgrubis@rei.com


    I don't know what to say. This man opened his doors, accepting lawfully carried weapons just as we have always asked. And it gets thrown in his face. If you're going to carry, do it responsibly and KEEP UP WITH YOUR GUN!

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    How does he know if those guns were legally owned, or if some criminal just "ditched" the weapon?



    At least he was relitively decent about it. Still, shop elsewhere, if theres actually a shooting, youll be at risk, and perhaps then the store will get it right.

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    I applaud this store manager in making the decision for what he feels best. From the title of the OP it is because other people are stupid. One thing that we have to remember, and it sure seems like very few people on this board accept it, is that those stupid people were carrying guns. Stainless1911 wants to say that they were guns ditched by criminals but that is just hiding your head in the sand trying to make excuses. Yes stupid people carry guns and have the right to. If someone can come up with a way to keep stupid people from carrying guns then I am sure lots of people want to hear about it. If it had been only one gun left behind then I doubt then the manager would have banned guns but after the third one in less thantwo years then.......

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    Although I see your point, I was just trying tolook at it as apossibility.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Maybe the police left them there.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-R...-on-the-street

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Wow, just wow! :what:3 guns in 2 years just left in the store. WTF??

    That has to be the most reasonable and thoughtful letter I have ever read from someone who has banned firearms. Perhaps worth the time to take him up on his offer to talk to him about the matter if for no other reason than for perspective on both sides.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I would just put up a sign:

    CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDER

    I am tired of finding guns in my fitting rooms. If you leave your firearm in thisfitting room, the store will sell it to alocal pawnshop and give the proceeds to the finder in the form of a discount coupon good at any of our 17 area locations.

    Bet that would cut down on "forgotten" guns real quick.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    I would just put up a sign:

    CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDER

    I am tired of finding guns in my fitting rooms. If you leave your firearm in thisfitting room, the store will sell it to alocal pawnshop and give the proceeds to the finder in the form of a discount coupon good at any of our 17 area locations.

    Bet that would cut down on "forgotten" guns real quick.
    Oooooooo, a sign will make all the difference in the world. Just what we need in another sign on the front to make everything fine. If a person can forget their gun and leave it in a dressing room do you really think a sign on the front door is going to do any good? We talk all the time on here about signs, just like the on this mamager is putting up, not doing any good and you go and want to put up another one. I don't know if the one the manager put up saying no guns allowed will do any good but I admire his decision to make it based on his actual experience and not some hysteria. I also really admire his response in the email.

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    I think that I am in the "admire his e-mail" group. It seems reasoned and rational, but it offers one glaring short coming. It is because there are "stupid" people who carry guns that the rest of us must be prepared to defend ourselves in places where it shouldn't be necessary.

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    PT111 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    I would just put up a sign:

    CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDER

    I am tired of finding guns in my fitting rooms. If you leave your firearm in thisfitting room, the store will sell it to alocal pawnshop and give the proceeds to the finder in the form of a discount coupon good at any of our 17 area locations.

    Bet that would cut down on "forgotten" guns real quick.
    SNIP Oooooooo, a sign will make all the difference in the world. Just what we need in another sign on the front to make everything fine. If a person can forget their gun and leave it in a dressing room do you really think a sign on the front door is going to do any good?
    The sign was for the fitting room. See the suggested sign text about "if you leave your firearm in this fitting room..."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    The sign was for the fitting room. See the suggested sign text about "if you leave your firearm in this fitting room..."
    Barring guns for three non-events seems extreme to me. It is a continuum of the protect the customers and staff from what he imagines might happen. He addressed this nicer than some, but the result is the same = GFZ, victim rich enviroment.

    Lurking around the fitting rooms again I see, Citizen.

    Since you are already there with your camera, why not take a picture of the sign for us.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I can just see some west-coast, no fur wearing, vegetariansoccer mom going into a dressing room and finding a gun. Good Lord think of the fuss she'd raise!

    Sounds like a cool way to get a bad ass gun collection to me! I'll volunteer to be the manager!

  13. #13
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    All right, let's continue the analogy:

    1. Some of Wal Mart's customers leave their keys in their cars, which presents an opportunity for any child walking by to step in and fire it up. Solution: Ban cars from their parking lots.

    I think that's enough by way of analogy.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I don't think this is the same thing as leaving your car keys in the dressing room. Leaving a loaded firearm in such an area certainly is a risk to other patrons and store personnel. Very easy for someone ignorant about guns to pick it up thinking it is a toy or just out of curiosity and unintentionally discharging the weapon. You can recite the rules about gun handling all you want but it doesn't change the fact that many people, probably a majority, in this country do not know and understand them. No excuse for forgetting a weapon like that.

    Assuming that the manager is being truthful about the incidents, the only way I see the store completely in the wrong here would be if there was evidence that the left sidearms were either stolen or linked to another crime in some manner indicating that they were ditched there rather than just left there. That would be the burning question I have and the reason if I were the OP that I would take up the manager on the offer to meet and talk about the issue.

    I'm not angry with the store about this situation but rather with the irresponsible people who forget their sidearms in dressing rooms, bathrooms or any other public area.

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I would sooner loose my vehicle keys than my gun.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    since9 wrote:
    All right, let's continue the analogy:

    1. Some of Wal Mart's customers leave their keys in their cars, which presents an opportunity for any child walking by to step in and fire it up. Solution: Ban cars from their parking lots.

    I think that's enough by way of analogy.
    In many places you could be fined or worse for leaving your keys in you car while in Wal-Mart shopping. Better check your insurance too as many policies have a clause that they will not pay if your car is stolen with the keys left in them. In some places this includes your driveway at home.

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    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    has anyone ever asked REI HQ what their corporate policy is regarding firearms and customers? that store is not "his" store. it's REI's store, and my and your store. (if you're a member, which i am) i've OC'ed into the Tacoma, WA REI on several occasions and aside from a sidewats glance from a couple granola types, nary a word was said. at least a half dozen employees saw it and didn't seem to care one way or another. i just went about my business buying a few Mountain House meals and checking out some rock climbing gear. i'm hoping that this particular store manager is overstepping his bounds and that it can be corrected.

    Bobby

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    Bobarino wrote:
    has anyone ever asked REI HQ what their corporate policy is regarding firearms and customers?
    Careful asking questions; you may not like the answer. If they current;y have no corporate policy one way or the other, badgering them will prompt them to write one, and it may not be the one you want.

    And the guy has a point. If I owned a store,didn't care one way or the other about firearms,and people kept leaving guns in bathrooms or dressing rooms, I'd be inclined to ban all of you as well.

    When one of us acts like a *******, we all fall under scrutiny. Even if the stupid ones were cops, as inthe above link.



  19. #19
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Bobarino wrote:
    has anyone ever asked REI HQ what their corporate policy is regarding firearms and customers?
    Careful asking questions; you may not like the answer. If they current;y have no corporate policy one way or the other, badgering them will prompt them to write one, and it may not be the one you want.

    And the guy has a point. If I owned a store,didn't care one way or the other about firearms,and people kept leaving guns in bathrooms or dressing rooms, I'd be inclined to ban all of you as well.

    When one of us acts like a *******, we all fall under scrutiny. Even if the stupid ones were cops, as inthe above link.
    So when did the antis start being ol' junk guns to leave in dressing stalls in order that we be blamed?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Bobarino wrote:
    has anyone ever asked REI HQ what their corporate policy is regarding firearms and customers?
    Careful asking questions; you may not like the answer. If they current;y have no corporate policy one way or the other, badgering them will prompt them to write one, and it may not be the one you want.

    And the guy has a point. If I owned a store,didn't care one way or the other about firearms,and people kept leaving guns in bathrooms or dressing rooms, I'd be inclined to ban all of you as well.

    When one of us acts like a *******, we all fall under scrutiny. Even if the stupid ones were cops, as inthe above link.
    So when did the antis start being ol' junk guns to leave in dressing stalls in order that we be blamed?

    Yata hey
    You know, Grape, I don't put nothing past the antis. They're about as low down as they come.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    So when did the antis start being ol' junk guns to leave in dressing stalls in order that we be blamed?

    Yata hey
    You know, Grape, I don't put nothing past the antis. They're about as low down as they come.
    +1 That is actually what I meant to convey.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    SNIP When one of us acts like a *******, we all fall under scrutiny.
    Good heavens! How many more jackasses do you think they'll find if they scrutinize all of us?

    Don't answer that!

    :P
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  23. #23
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    Citizen wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    SNIP When one of us acts like a *******, we all fall under scrutiny.
    Good heavens! How many more jackasses do you think they'll find if they scrutinize all of us?

    Don't answer that!

    :P
    Well, I figure as long as I don't spend much time in public I'm doing y'all a favor.

  24. #24
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    SNIP When one of us acts like a *******, we all fall under scrutiny.
    Good heavens! How many more jackasses do you think they'll find if they scrutinize all of us?

    Don't answer that!

    :P
    Well, I figure as long as I don't spend much time in public I'm doing y'all a favor.
    WE do appreciate that Tomahawk. hehehe

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