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Teacher killed in Tacoma elementary school shooting, Local SeattlePI.com

gogodawgs

gogodawgs

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marshaul wrote:
So, differentiating between "school grounds" and "school buildings" in a discussion about what the law ought to be (rather than what it is) isn't playing the semantics game?
Click to expand...

No, semantics is word selection. I did not choose the word, the law did and distinguishes two different legal scenarios. The reason I bring this up is that I routinely pick up/drop off my daughters in after school sporting events on the grounds of the school. I CC on the school grounds near the softball field and tennis courts, etc. Having spoken with a LEO about this scenario, he agrees that this is an acceptable view. (of course other LEO might not)

Now as far as how the law should be, YES a CPL holder should be able to carry into the building; whether they be a parent, teacher or other lawful CPL holder. Yes the teacher should of been able to defend herself. I would love to find out that this teacher (God rest her soul)did have her CPL and had it locked in her car per the law.
 
N

Norman

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Olympia, Washington, USA
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I don't get it. I don't always agree with the threshhold that is needed to get a restraining/no contact order, but IF you have one against you, and then break it, what sense in the world does it make to allow the person to post bail? The guy just showed he has no problem breaking the order, but for $10k he can be set free to break it again?! Our justice system is broken to hell
 
BigDave

BigDave

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gogodawgs wrote:
BigDave wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
BigDave wrote:
I think this is another reason that legally armed citizens should be able to carry on school grounds.

It may not have changed the out come but one would of had the tools available to them in this time of need.

Likely this was a relationship gone bad and waiting to see if a restraining order was in place.
It should be well known by now that restraining orders are only after the fact in prosecuting the offender, it is not proactive as being armed for ones self defense.
Click to expand...
Dave, we can carry on school grounds. However, you must be picking up or dropping off a student or leave the firearm in your locked vehicle.
Click to expand...
Are we playing with semantics here? it is for picking up and dropping off students only, try going into the school or walking around the grounds.

As in this situation a Teacher nor you can carry a firearm into their classroom for protection.
Click to expand...

Correct, not attempting to play semantics. You said school grounds, not in a school building. The law definately distinguishes between the two.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:


(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
Click to expand...
The law says "public or private elementary or secondary school premises" what do you think premises means?


Premises are land and buildings together considered as a property.

This usage arose from property owners finding the word in their title deeds, where it originally correctly meant "the aforementioned; what this document is about", from Latin prae-missus = "placed before".

In this sense, the word is always used in the plural, but singular in construction. Note that a single house or a single other piece of property is "premises", not a "premise", although the word "premises" is plural in form as in "The equipment is located on the customer's premises" and never "The equipment is located on the customer's premise".
Click to expand...
And by law you are allowed to pick up and drop off students, as to pushing the issue of entering a school building armed, you may well find yourself in front of a judge arguing your points.
Concerning the original topic how would this apply?
 
G

GSXRrider

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Beaverton, ,
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BigDave wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
BigDave wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
BigDave wrote:
I think this is another reason that legally armed citizens should be able to carry on school grounds.

It may not have changed the out come but one would of had the tools available to them in this time of need.

Likely this was a relationship gone bad and waiting to see if a restraining order was in place.
It should be well known by now that restraining orders are only after the fact in prosecuting the offender, it is not proactive as being armed for ones self defense.
Click to expand...
Dave, we can carry on school grounds. However, you must be picking up or dropping off a student or leave the firearm in your locked vehicle.
Click to expand...
Are we playing with semantics here? it is for picking up and dropping off students only, try going into the school or walking around the grounds.

As in this situation a Teacher nor you can carry a firearm into their classroom for protection.
Click to expand...

Correct, not attempting to play semantics. You said school grounds, not in a school building. The law definately distinguishes between the two.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:


(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
Click to expand...
The law says "public or private elementary or secondary school premises" what do you think premises means?


Premises are land and buildings together considered as a property.

This usage arose from property owners finding the word in their title deeds, where it originally correctly meant "the aforementioned; what this document is about", from Latin prae-missus = "placed before".

In this sense, the word is always used in the plural, but singular in construction. Note that a single house or a single other piece of property is "premises", not a "premise", although the word "premises" is plural in form as in "The equipment is located on the customer's premises" and never "The equipment is located on the customer's premise".
Click to expand...
And by law you are allowed to pick up and drop off students, as to pushing the issue of entering a school building armed, you may well find yourself in front of a judge arguing your points.
Concerning the original topic how would this apply?
Click to expand...

I believe he is just saying that you can carry while dropping off or picking up student vs actually going into the building. I guess you could still carry in the school though, as long as you are picking up. Like if you go to get them out early, you would have to go to the office. But that may be interpreted differently by a judge/jury.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

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Joined
Oct 25, 2009
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Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
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GSXRrider wrote:
BigDave wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
BigDave wrote:
gogodawgs wrote:
BigDave wrote:
I think this is another reason that legally armed citizens should be able to carry on school grounds.

It may not have changed the out come but one would of had the tools available to them in this time of need.

Likely this was a relationship gone bad and waiting to see if a restraining order was in place.
It should be well known by now that restraining orders are only after the fact in prosecuting the offender, it is not proactive as being armed for ones self defense.
Click to expand...
Dave, we can carry on school grounds. However, you must be picking up or dropping off a student or leave the firearm in your locked vehicle.
Click to expand...
Are we playing with semantics here? it is for picking up and dropping off students only, try going into the school or walking around the grounds.

As in this situation a Teacher nor you can carry a firearm into their classroom for protection.
Click to expand...

Correct, not attempting to play semantics. You said school grounds, not in a school building. The law definately distinguishes between the two.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:


(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
Click to expand...
The law says "public or private elementary or secondary school premises" what do you think premises means?


Premises are land and buildings together considered as a property.

This usage arose from property owners finding the word in their title deeds, where it originally correctly meant "the aforementioned; what this document is about", from Latin prae-missus = "placed before".

In this sense, the word is always used in the plural, but singular in construction. Note that a single house or a single other piece of property is "premises", not a "premise", although the word "premises" is plural in form as in "The equipment is located on the customer's premises" and never "The equipment is located on the customer's premise".
Click to expand...
And by law you are allowed to pick up and drop off students, as to pushing the issue of entering a school building armed, you may well find yourself in front of a judge arguing your points.
Concerning the original topic how would this apply?
Click to expand...

I believe he is just saying that you can carry while dropping off or picking up student vs actually going into the building. I guess you could still carry in the school though, as long as you are picking up. Like if you go to get them out early, you would have to go to the office. But that may be interpreted differently by a judge/jury.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
Click to expand...

NO! look at the final subsection:

(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
 
G

Guy B. Meredith

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Salem, Oregon
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SwatSpyder,

You neglected to mention that "mellow" Japan has some issues with something called yakuza, much stabbing and slicing, not to mention the mellow suicides via subway trains and "flash events" consisting of network chums sniffing CO from hibachis in closed automobiles and rooms.

It's all only evil when Americans do it.
 
D

DaemonForce

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Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
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Location
Lewis County, Washington, USA
imported post

Japan has an odd trend of suicide these days. Forget the depopulation problem, that's because of too many old people and not enough children. I'm talking about the friends I have in Japan in relation to everyone I meet here in America. One old man dies here every year. In that same year in Japan, 5 people kill themselves. What the **** man?! :shock:

Hell someone over there killed himself last Sunday. Odd way to go about it though. He jumped off a building. Yeah he didn't do the train thing or inhale toxic fumes or any of that. He just dove for the pavement. The best part is that I used to talk to this guy over Skype every other morning. :(
 
D

DaemonForce

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Lewis County, Washington, USA
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No idea. I don't experience social pressure because I have an extremely dominating character. Sometimes I can pick up on it though. He seemed a bit shy to talk to others at times but otherwise pretty normal. His Skype name would always be the generic term for Master. I didn't even notice he was gone until someone else on Skype spoke up about it. He died at the ripe old age of chicken(28). :?

As far as I knew there was nothing remotely strange about him. So I guess the next time you talk to someone in Japan, regardless of their goals or character, it's probably the last time you talk to them. =/
 
OrangeIsTrouble

OrangeIsTrouble

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Tukwila, WA, ,
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DaemonForce wrote:
No idea. I don't experience social pressure because I have an extremely dominating character. Sometimes I can pick up on it though. He seemed a bit shy to talk to others at times but otherwise pretty normal. His Skype name would always be the generic term for Master. I didn't even notice he was gone until someone else on Skype spoke up about it. He died at the ripe old age of chicken(28). :?

As far as I knew there was nothing remotely strange about him. So I guess the next time you talk to someone in Japan, regardless of their goals or character, it's probably the last time you talk to them. =/
Click to expand...
You are one strange person you know that?
 
Beretta92FSLady

Beretta92FSLady

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This story is just unfortunate. I try to encourage other women to learn to shoot, learnto defend themselves. Unfortunately there are people/women out there that actually believe a piece of paper is going to protect them.

This type of situation is precisely why I teach my girls to fight, and how to shoot, and be comfortable with a firearm. *I hope that no one feels that I am being sexist in this response, because women to committ voilent crimes against men*...just making a point from this side.

I would rather be judged by twelve.
 
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