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Thread: "Open Carry" exposes a lot of what's wrong in the gun community

  1. #1
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    I for one often times get frustrated with many ofmy fellow gun owners. Many are not members of such groups as this oneor the NRA and other groups that fight for our 2A rights, and often do not even pay attention to the politics of the day that can have a huge impact as well, locally and nationally.

    In my view Open Carry also points out another weakness in the gun community. Allow me to explain.

    Those of us who are committed to protects our rights all have different roles we can fill. Some make great headway politically and influence law makers, politicians etc. Others may have more money than time and support groups who are always at the forefront of the battles. All these are great.

    That said, Open Carry exposes a lot of weakness even in the small percentage of gun owners who are aware of whats going on and working to defend our rights.

    Open Carry is a passive way that a person with a lot or little resources can make huge headway on promoting the 2A, change some public perception etc.and yet, the majority will not do it.

    Many say it is not their preferred method of carry, and to that I say fine, but what would one day a week hurt?

    I believe that the real reason that most people will not carry is FEAR. They are afraid of the general public reaction, AND they are afraid of the reaction of the police.

    Both of these need dealt with. I believe that even in cities that most people eitherdo not notice or are neutral. Others are actually very supportive and only a minority are trouble makers over someone OCing.

    As far as the police go, we have to remember it's their job to protect our rights, not limit them, and the only way they are going to change is by more people OCing and standing up.

    It is sad that people are afraid to exercise not only what is a legal activity, BUT A RIGHT!

    The excuses are someone may not liiiike it, I may get charged with something and have to spend money to defend myself, it's a tactical disadvantage and on and on they go.

    Other groups of people have risked beatings, jail time and even death to get what they feel are rights.

    I am certainly not poking my finger in the eye of folks on this forum, nor trying to piss off any of my fellow gun owners, but I really believe that what is at the core of the challenge to get OC more ofa common method of carry is FEAR.

    JMO. Rottman



  2. #2
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    If one likes to open carry there is nogroup or organizationto support. The NRA does not support open carry. Local organizations in Tennessee like the TFA don't support open carry. Most all gun websites do not support legal open carry ( I have been banned on nearly all of them because I dared open carry and challenged unlawful detainments). I think opencarry.org and calguns.net are the only web forums which are pro open carry.

    Open carry isn't going away. RTKBA groups andconcealed carry only people need to get thatinto theirheads.

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    I'm a member of the NRA because I want to ensure our right to carry is protected, not because I want to advocate OC. Obviously, if the government took away our right to carry altogether, it wouldn't matter what side of the OC/CC debate one stood on.

    That said, aren't organizations created to address the lack of one to advance their particular cause? Problem solved.

  4. #4
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    kwikrnu wrote:
    If one likes to open carry there is nogroup or organizationto support. The NRA does not support open carry. Local organizations in Tennessee like the TFA don't support open carry. Most all gun websites do not support legal open carry ( I have been banned on nearly all of them because I dared open carry and challenged unlawful detainments). I think opencarry.org and calguns.net are the only web forums which are pro open carry.
    Which forums/sites have you been banned from?

    On those forums/sites have other members not been banned who alsopracticed OCing and who challenged unlawful detainments?



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    rottman43055 wrote
    Both of these need dealt with.
    No one's stopping you.

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    Many gun organizations belief that until recently, talking about OpenCarry specifically hurt them and their causes. Perhaps they will change with the tide.

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    shootemup wrote:





    You OCers a kooks.
    Are you sure that you're on the right forum? I'm thinking that http://www.nambypamby.com is the forum for you. Don't forget that they're calling for the sky to fall tomorrow, so make sure to have your helmet on .
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    Some 40 years ago I had an all-expense paid vacation in Vietnam as a member of the 5th Special Forces. On the few occasions when I had the opportunity to visit restaurants and coffee shops (sorry there were no Starbucks) in Saigon, I did not OC a sidearm.

    I would argue that Saigon in 1968-1971 was a much more dangerous place than most cities in America circa 2010.

    I suggest that OCers man-up and brave the wilds of Starbucks and Walmart sans their favorite .44Mag sidearm.

    If you continue to be nervous and paranoid in public without a sidearm, my recommendation would be to have your mommy hold your hand.


  9. #9
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    SanFranShootr wrote:
    Some 40 years ago I had an all-expense paid vacation in Vietnam as a member of the 5th Special Forces. On the few occasions when I had the opportunity to visit restaurants and coffee shops (sorry there were no Starbucks) in Saigon, I did not OC a sidearm.

    I would argue that Saigon in 1968-1971 was a much more dangerous place than most cities in America circa 2010.

    I suggest that OCers man-up and brave the wilds of Starbucks and Walmart sans their favorite .44Mag sidearm.

    If you continue to be nervous and paranoid in public without a sidearm, my recommendation would be to have your mommy hold your hand.
    So, you weren't an officer; and too cheap to buy your own sidearm. What's that got to do with open carry? The only cure for stupid is...wait, there is no cure. SORRY, maybe the next lifetime huh?

    No TROLLS:
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


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    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    SanFranShootr wrote:
    Some 40 years ago I had an all-expense paid vacation in Vietnam as a member of the 5th Special Forces. On the few occasions when I had the opportunity to visit restaurants and coffee shops (sorry there were no Starbucks) in Saigon, I did not OC a sidearm.

    I would argue that Saigon in 1968-1971 was a much more dangerous place than most cities in America circa 2010.

    I suggest that OCers man-up and brave the wilds of Starbucks and Walmart sans their favorite .44Mag sidearm.

    If you continue to be nervous and paranoid in public without a sidearm, my recommendation would be to have your mommy hold your hand.
    Your "mommy" never told you?: "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst."

  11. #11
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    shootemup wrote:
    I believe that the real reason that most people will not carry is FEAR. They are afraid of the general public reaction, AND they are afraid of the reaction of the police."



    Any rational person would definitely be afraid of the reaction of the police....afraid to find themselves eating concrete after the officer has tackled and cuffed them.

    You OCers a kooks.
    False premise = FAIL

    All baseless assertions, generated out of an irrational fear. Do you think the police open carry for the same reasons you list? Does state authority make it OK to intimidate everyone around them, instilling fear into innocent people? Of course not! The vast majority of people are not afraid of the police because they open carry a firearm. Police open carry for self protection, and the protection of others.

    The presence of a firearm only intimidates those who wish to do harm to you, or do harm to others around you. All others who are intimidated unfortunately suffer from some degree of hoplophobia. People who open carry are being honest and open about the fact that they are armed, and the possibility of being a criminal is minimal.

    You should seek the guidance of a psychotherapist for your hoplophobia.

    For your edification: Raging Against Self Defense:
    A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentalityhttp://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragi...elfdefense.htm

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    Sigh... same old bashing on OC. Anybody know why the sight of a gun scares people? (raises hand) I do! Pick ME! It's because nobody sees them anymore! I know nobody in my family or my close friends would look twice at a guy with a gun on his hip except to admire what he was carrying and wish we had one because we are used to seeing them.

    I don't wanna be a big bad man, I'm not trying to prove something, I don't have a sense of superiority, and I am in no way being immature.

    Being immature would be joining a forum that supports open carry, bashing open carry, and doing this all with the name "shootemup". With a name like that, you HAVE to be a mature, intelligent and safe gun owner. (please note sarcasm Mr. "shootemup"... Sarcasm is when someone says something they don't really mean in a way that... oh never mind, you wouldn't get it even if I explained it)

    If lots of people open carry, this would become a normal aspect of life. Therefore, removing the fear of the weapon and replacing it with respect. This would also make it more difficult for anti-gun people to make laws that would take away the guns that you "oh so wise" CC only fellas care about so dearly.

    If the law abiding public no longer have an irrational fear of other law abiding citizens carrying guns, what do the anti's have to use as leverage to get these laws past?

    Did I go to fast for ya'?

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    I carry concealed, and am intrigued by the passion for open carry. I get the argument about open carry normalizing gun ownership, and the political argument about strengthening the 2A constituency. But from a public policy standpoint, why do we want people walking around with guns? There really aren't any stats on whether gun ownership deters crime. (Don't give me John Lott; he's been discredited. The consensus among non-advocate academics, from Kleck on one side to Hemenway on the other, is that concealed carry doesn't appreciably affect crime one way or the other.) Any advantage to open carry, i.e. discouraging crime, is no doubt offset by the disadvantage, i.e. guns readily to hand in a road-rage, domestic abuse, or other ugly situation. So let's call that a wash. Aside from the political utility of open carry, what's the public good in open carry?
    It's an honest question, and I'd appreciate a civilized answer, without a lot of the infantile name-calling that gives firearms enthusiasts a bad name. Thanks.

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    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Did somebody leave the troll gate open again...dammit .

    Getalong little trollies, getalong...Hiya!!!
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

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    SanFranShootr wrote:
    I suggest that OCers man-up and brave the wilds of Starbucks and Walmart sans their favorite .44Mag sidearm.

    If you continue to be nervous and paranoid in public without a sidearm, my recommendation would be to have your mommy hold your hand.
    It's not that we feel we may need to defend outselves while INSIDE a Starbucks or a WalMart. It's those trips from our vehicle through the parking lot or down the street we are concerned about. WalMart Parking lots have the highest incident of violent crime of ANY OTHER retail business in the US. The crime rates in WalMart parking lots are often 2 or 3 times higher than local averages. They are notorious for this...

    It's not about thinking we will need a firearm. It's about taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for our own safety and security, and that of our precious families and loved ones.

    I live in an area where the average response time for a 911 call is 15 minutes, and this is a small crime with relatively low crime rates. In bigger cities and urban areas, response times are often closer to 20 or 30 minutes. Personally, I'd rather let my lawyer explain to the local Sheriff why I ad to defend myself against some armed, violent thug than have the local coroner explain to my wife and family why I was gripping my cellphone when I died...

    Self Defense is a fundamental HUMAN RIGHT. Anyone who is against a fundamental human right doesn't deserve my time or energy to discuss it further...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    sonofsy wrote:
    I carry concealed, and am intrigued by the passion for open carry. I get the argument about open carry normalizing gun ownership, and the political argument about strengthening the 2A constituency. But from a public policy standpoint, why do we want people walking around with guns? There really aren't any stats on whether gun ownership deters crime. (Don't give me John Lott; he's been discredited. The consensus among non-advocate academics, from Kleck on one side to Hemenway on the other, is that concealed carry doesn't appreciably affect crime one way or the other.) Any advantage to open carry, i.e. discouraging crime, is no doubt offset by the disadvantage, i.e. guns readily to hand in a road-rage, domestic abuse, or other ugly situation. So let's call that a wash. Aside from the political utility of open carry, what's the public good in open carry?
    It's an honest question, and I'd appreciate a civilized answer, without a lot of the infantile name-calling that gives firearms enthusiasts a bad name. Thanks.
    Fascinating. I recently read on another forum that Kleck has been discredited.

    On the other hand, that poster didn't provide any cites either.

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    sonofsy wrote:
    Any advantage to open carry, i.e. discouraging crime, is no doubt offset by the disadvantage, i.e. guns readily to hand in a road-rage, domestic abuse, or other ugly situation.
    Just curious... how is an openly carried gun "readily to hand" for all this mischief... but your concealed gun is not? Is that what you are saying. No documentation of that?

    I thought so...
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    I will never understand why OCing scares so many people. Americans have truly become sheep being led to the slaughter when the sight of a gun scares them. OCing is not about image, it is about being prepared and excercising our 2nd Amendment right!

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    shootemup wrote:
    I believe that the real reason that most people will not carry is FEAR. They are afraid of the general public reaction, AND they are afraid of the reaction of the police."

    Open carry is a childish passive-aggressive activity. You know you get a big thrill out of intimidating those around you, instilling FEAR into the innocent people minding their own business, getting on with their lives. It makes you feel like a BIG MAN! Oh yeah.

    Any rational person would definitely be afraid of the reaction of the police....afraid to find themselves eating concrete after the officer has tackled and cuffed them.

    You OCers a kooks.
    Well,

    Live Free or Die is a state motto. Is everyone in that state a kook?

    My recommendation to you shootemup:

    Go back to your dark and dingy concealed carry pergutory, for that is what it is. Not free, and not completely bound. Skulking around with a government permission slip for fear of the system.

    I instead choose freedom and the light of day. IOC because a right unexercised is a right lost and what I really fear is no longer being free.

    Live Free or Die,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I Open Carry because concealed requires a permit. In Colorado- if you legally possess the firearm- you can open carry it. My home state- Michigan- Requires a permit to open carry. Quite a difference to me.

    Oh, and permits aren't Free.

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    sonofsy wrote:
    I carry concealed, and am intrigued by the passion for open carry. I get the argument about open carry normalizing gun ownership, and the political argument about strengthening the 2A constituency. But from a public policy standpoint, why do we want people walking around with guns?
    Oops! Bit of a contradiction there... I'll answer your question though. I carry a weapon openly to SCARE CRIMINALS out of comitting a crime against me, my family, or those near me. It shouldn't be frowned upon, it should be appreciated. You carry concealed (so you say) so what's the difference?
    There really aren't any stats on whether gun ownership deters crime. (Don't give me John Lott; he's been discredited. The consensus among non-advocate academics, from Kleck on one side to Hemenway on the other, is that concealed carry doesn't appreciably affect crime one way or the other.) Any advantage to open carry, i.e. discouraging crime, is no doubt offset by the disadvantage, i.e. guns readily to hand in a road-rage, domestic abuse, or other ugly situation.
    Guns will be carried no matter what... People are people. You can walk anywhere you want with your gun legally or illegally, your point is not holding any water, while at the same time you're dis-crediting non-existant stats about legal gun ownership... It does deter crime, when someone breaks into a home and the owner defends themselves with deadly force, any future crimes to come from that break in have been ended. Open minded thinking get's you a long way, you should try it.
    So let's call that a wash. Aside from the political utility of open carry, what's the public good in open carry?
    It's an honest question, and I'd appreciate a civilized answer, without a lot of the infantile name-calling that gives firearms enthusiasts a bad name. Thanks.
    There is plenty of public good... We take a huge responsibility to protect others around us if a crime is committed that requires lethal force. Really, all BS aside, conceal carry and open carry are one in the same, WE ARE ALL CARRYING A FIREARM!

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  23. #23
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    HankT wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    If one likes to open carry there is nogroup or organizationto support. The NRA does not support open carry. Local organizations in Tennessee like the TFA don't support open carry. Most all gun websites do not support legal open carry ( I have been banned on nearly all of them because I dared open carry and challenged unlawful detainments). I think opencarry.org and calguns.net are the only web forums which are pro open carry.
    Which forums/sites have you been banned from?

    On those forums/sites have other members not been banned who alsopracticed OCing and who challenged unlawful detainments?

    Not particularly wanting to name websites, but I belong to a few that Kwik was banned from. I practice OC and I challenge any police action that could be unlawful. I've been called a cop hater, just as Kwik. The only difference is that I have not preformed the "hated deeds" Kwik has preformed (all perfectly legal).

    I can not attest that Kwik didn't violate some other rules of those websites that resulted in those bans, but I have not read anything that would lead me to believe such.



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    no permit needed to carry in Michigan. maybe you should come back to visit lol.

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    This is why I love Alaska. I need no permit to open carry or conceal carry. It is also not unusual at all to see OC and the Leos have no problem with it and will actually stand there and discuss why they like one pistol over another and what type they OC when they are off duty.

    My kids cant wait till they are old enough to OC, and gun ownership does deter crime. When Gov. Bush passed the concealed weapon permit law for citizens in Texas, violent crimes in Texas went Down.

    Also, why bash the ones that like to OC or CC? We are all Americans and are trying to protect our rights that are guaranteed by our Constitution. Shouldnt we be working together to keep our rights and not bashing, name calling and trolling just for a reaction?

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