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Thread: One of the few times I think CC is the best idea

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Everyone here has listened to me rant ad nauseum about CC being a privilege I don't need. Well Tuesday will be the only example I have of wishing I had a CHP. Not enough to go get one, but actually wishing I had.

    I'll be at the Virginia Holocaust Museum, to photograph the demonstrations, in and out of heavy crowds on both side, neither of which I care much for, and have both hands full.

    So yes Virginia, there are rare times when CC is best.

    I humbly admit it!:P

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Yeah I could see it getting sticky with one side or the other thinking you are an armed antagonist. Out of curiosity what event is going on?
    ETA: If you got the privilege why not exercise at your discretion?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Yeah I could see it getting sticky with one side or the other thinking you are an armed antagonist. Out of curiosity what event is going on?
    A white Supremest Baptist church (Out of state) has a traveling protest and will stop in Richmond at a school, the Holocaust Museum and several other places.

    Counter protests are planned and rumor has it in the black community that they are going to be rough. Who knows. I've heard it all before, but if it does, I sure would like video and photos.

    Of course McEachin's shooting off his mouth too.
    http://news.oldva.org/

    So I'm going back to the farm Monday, coming to richmond Tuesday for this and then going back on Wednesday.

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    I'll admit as well there are times where I'd rather CC. Soon enough I'll be able to get my flimsy magical piece of printer paper that exempts me from a silly law.

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    I wouldn't call the Westboro Baptists white supremacists. They are anti-gay and anti-jew though. Either way they are a bunch of whackos.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    The best defense is not to be there I think, but good luck and stay safe.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    I wouldn't call the Westboro Baptists white supremacists. They are anti-gay and anti-jew though. Either way they are a bunch of whackos.
    That's what they say...but they sure picked some black areas to spread the word. But yes...a better term would be Wacko's.

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    hunter45 wrote:
    I wouldn't call the Westboro Baptists white supremacists. They are anti-gay and anti-jew though. Either way they are a bunch of whackos.
    You missed when they came to GMU, fall 2007. Bunch of nutjobs, they are.

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    There's nothing wrong with carrying concealed. It's every bit as much a right as OC. It just sucks to have to get a permit. I personally like to stay low-key in most places, it's just my personality. OC makes that a bit difficult.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with carrying concealed. It's every bit as much a right as OC. It just sucks to have to get a permit. I personally like to stay low-key in most places, it's just my personality. OC makes that a bit difficult.
    I'm thinking more of myself and people like me. I had a permit because I needed a low profile but I traded my chalk stripe suit for a Woolrich coat 30 years ago and never looked back.

    And...while I agree that it is a right, the Commonwealth of Virginia considers it a privilege.

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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Being a native of Topeka I am more versed with this group than just about anyone on the VA forum. I have some advice:

    This "church" (WBC) is almost 100% comprised of lawyers.

    WBC has a policy of litigation, "death by a thousand cuts". Anything they can sue you for, they will try. Their cup o' tea is civil rights litigation. Meaning, if you try to stop the message, they will sue you for 1st Amendment discrimination.

    The main way the "church" funds it's coffers and these trips is through litigation awards.

    Are you seeing a litigation theme yet? I hope you are.

    No matter how sound your argument is they will not listen or care. These people are literally brainwashed into believing everyone except them is an unrepentant homosexual and will burn in hell. Any attempt to compromise or change their minds is a waste of time.

    They videotape EVERYTHING and often times will intentionally attempt to instigate an altercation. The video will be focused on something benign when they are inciting a problem, but once someone not from the church begins doing something towards the church the cameras magically are zoomed in on the altercation. The video will not show the church members actions that created the incident, but will show the result. This video is oftentimes used in litigation.

    I wish I had the time to come to this, but, I can't justify taking a day off when they're only gonna be there for 30 minutes.

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    The police aren't too happy about them coming either:

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=141488

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    nakedshoplifter wrote:
    Being a native of Topeka I am more versed with this group than just about anyone on the VA forum. I have some advice:

    This "church" (WBC) is almost 100% comprised of lawyers.

    WBC has a policy of litigation, "death by a thousand cuts". Anything they can sue you for, they will try. Their cup o' tea is civil rights litigation. Meaning, if you try to stop the message, they will sue you for 1st Amendment discrimination.

    The main way the "church" funds it's coffers and these trips is through litigation awards.

    Are you seeing a litigation theme yet? I hope you are.

    No matter how sound your argument is they will not listen or care. These people are literally brainwashed into believing everyone except them is an unrepentant homosexual and will burn in hell. Any attempt to compromise or change their minds is a waste of time.

    They videotape EVERYTHING and often times will intentionally attempt to instigate an altercation. The video will be focused on something benign when they are inciting a problem, but once someone not from the church begins doing something towards the church the cameras magically are zoomed in on the altercation. The video will not show the church members actions that created the incident, but will show the result. This video is oftentimes used in litigation.

    I wish I had the time to come to this, but, I can't justify taking a day off when they're only gonna be there for 30 minutes.
    Thanks!
    Sounds like a very photogenic group.
    The school may be the more interesting of the stops. That's what I'm hearing all the mumbling about.



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    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    I wouldn't call the Westboro Baptists white supremacists. They are anti-gay and anti-jew though. Either way they are a bunch of whackos.
    I just Googled them to find out more. They're actually quite amusing. The BBC did a hidden camera interview and two of the daughters of Fred Phelps (the Mentally Ill preacher) said they hope only that the Westboro members become the "elect" and the rest of the world burns in Hell. They seem to put up a website with GodHates {insert Name Here} .com for anybody who disagrees or criticizes them. The Prime Minister of Australia chastised the group for protesting after the death of somebody and the group immediately put up a GodhatesAustralia.com website.

    I would say they are more of a traveling circus or freak show than a hate group. You can't hate everybody, that limits your membership and income. I guess they haven't figured that out yet.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I thought so. Even though they claim to not be raciest, they target racial areas and have racial slurs on their signs.
    They called the Mayor of Topika, a Gorilla.

    Looks like they lose more money in lawsuits than they win.

    Should make for good pictures though. The counter protests are shaping up to be pretty good shooting too,

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    Everyone here has listened to me rant ad nauseum about CC being a privilege I don't need. Well Tuesday will be the only example I have of wishing I had a CHP. Not enough to go get one, but actually wishing I had.

    I'll be at the Virginia Holocaust Museum, to photograph the demonstrations, in and out of heavy crowds on both side, neither of which I care much for, and have both hands full.

    So yes Virginia, there are rare times when CC is best.

    I humbly admit it!:P
    I think I understand your reasons for not getting a permit, and I can admire you for sticking to your guns, so to speak... but for times like this, when it really is better to have one than not, why don't you get a Utah permit? Unlike Virginia, nobody has to know!

    (Well except for your friends who would know you're probably carrying, but can't see that you're carrying... but how many people is that, compared to the whole world?)

    Utah permits will get you into the GAB as well, for next year's Lobby Day.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    peter nap wrote: I think I understand your reasons for not getting a permit, and I can admire you for sticking to your guns, so to speak... but for times like this, when it really is better to have one than not, why don't you get a Utah permit? Unlike Virginia, nobody has to know!

    (Well except for your friends who would know you're probably carrying, but can't see that you're carrying... but how many people is that, compared to the whole world?)

    Utah permits will get you into the GAB as well, for next year's Lobby Day.

    TFred
    I'd know TFred, and in the end, that's the important part.

    It's a difficult position sometimes. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with having a CHP. It's a tool for those that need it, much like a Contractors license. But think what it would be like if the government decided you needed a Contractors license to paint your own house.

    I was at Costco the other day (OC'ing BTW despite the rule) and had to renew mu membership. The fellow asked if I had a drivers license and I said yes. He asked if he could see it and I said no.

    My wife, knowing what was coming, had drifted away with a ...who is that man, look.

    He said "Why nor?"

    I explained that a Drivers License was a license to drive a car, NOT AN ID.
    We finally settled on my General Assembly ID...which is an ID.

    It's all in the principal.

    A CHP IS NOT A GOVERNMENT PROOF OF A LEGAL OR RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER card... Despite the efforts to make it so.

    I was a little upset to find according to this card, that since I wasn't a CHP holder, my business was somehow less important. A Virginiaized version was being handed out.







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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with carrying concealed. It's every bit as much a right as OC. It just sucks to have to get a permit. I personally like to stay low-key in most places, it's just my personality. OC makes that a bit difficult.
    I've pasted an excerpt from Kilgores AG opinion on State park carry and highlighted the key words Hawk.

    1 person's privilege to carry a concealed handgun is considered universal within the Commonwealth subject to limited circumstances. The General Assembly has specifically set out those places where the carrying of a concealed handgun is prohibited: places of worship,J~ collrthouses.~ scnools.~ places liccnsed

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    peter nap wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with carrying concealed. It's every bit as much a right as OC. It just sucks to have to get a permit. I personally like to stay low-key in most places, it's just my personality. OC makes that a bit difficult.
    I've pasted an excerpt from Kilgores AG opinion on State park carry and highlighted the key words Hawk.

    1 person's privilege to carry a concealed handgun is considered universal within the Commonwealth subject to limited circumstances. The General Assembly has specifically set out those places where the carrying of a concealed handgun is prohibited: places of worship,J~ collrthouses.~ scnools.~ places liccnsed
    I can't speak for Tomahawk but I interpreted what he said to mean that he believes (rightly so) that carrying concealed is a right, even if the state currently says otherwise and requires you to get a shall issue permit.

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    While I'm sure you have the proper tool for the job, I've got ask how you CC a BFR?:shock:

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    altajava wrote:
    While I'm sure you have the proper tool for the job, I've got ask how you CC a BFR?:shock:
    I think I have a few of those little guns somewhere....Hope the mice didn't run off with them:P

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with carrying concealed. It's every bit as much a right as OC. It just sucks to have to get a permit. I personally like to stay low-key in most places, it's just my personality. OC makes that a bit difficult.
    I agree completely. BOTH modes of carry are constitutionally protected as far as I'm concerned. I've heard some bizaar explainations from some hard core open-carry-only types trying to show that concealed carry is not constitutionally enumerated. When I read the second amendment however, I find no mention of carry mode. Since it states "bear arms" without specifying a mode, then I maintain that the mode of carry is left to the discression of the free citizen.

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    6L6GC wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with carrying concealed. It's every bit as much a right as OC. It just sucks to have to get a permit. I personally like to stay low-key in most places, it's just my personality. OC makes that a bit difficult.
    I agree completely. BOTH modes of carry are constitutionally protected as far as I'm concerned. I've heard some bizaar explainations from some hard core open-carry-only types trying to show that concealed carry is not constitutionally enumerated. When I read the second amendment however, I find no mention of carry mode. Since it states "bear arms" without specifying a mode, then I maintain that the mode of carry is left to the discression of the free citizen.
    While I believe both to be protected by the constitution, OC in Va is the only one you do not have to have a permission slip to do. I do cc from time to time as a conveyance to my self, and I do believe it is a personal choice as it should be without any mandates. But until we can cc with out the permission slip, I will question cc perks over not allowing OCand will continue to try and avoid patronising places that clearlydon't allow both.

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    This argument always comes up. Let me be clear: carrying open or concealed in public or on your property is a right, even in Virginia, where the government says it's a privilege. Even in North Korea, where the government says it's an act of treason. Even in Singapore, where possession of firearms gets the death penalty.

    Of course practically speaking, you need a permit in Virginia to CC. That doesn't have anything to do with what is or isn't a right, it's just ink on paper put there by politicians. We can change that ink, someday, and make the Commonwealth recognize our right, but for now we are stuck with what we have until we get more political support.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    This argument always comes up. Let me be clear: carrying open or concealed in public or on your property is a right, even in Virginia, where the government says it's a privilege. Even in North Korea, where the government says it's an act of treason. Even in Singapore, where possession of firearms gets the death penalty.

    Of course practically speaking, you need a permit in Virginia to CC. That doesn't have anything to do with what is or isn't a right, it's just ink on paper put there by politicians. We can change that ink, someday, and make the Commonwealth recognize our right, but for now we are stuck with what we have until we get more political support.
    Agree!

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