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  1. #1
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    Post Asheville

    Hi Everybody,

    I've been studying this forum for a few months now, this is my first post.

    I live in Asheville NC. I've been here for about 2 years. I have some friends that carry concealed, but I've never seen anyone OC around here (except LEO and Security).

    I'm planning to start in a few days when my new holster comes in. I will probably call local Law Enforcement Agencies first just to get a feel for their attitudes on it.

    Has anyone here ever open-carried around Asheville, or have anything to say about it?

    with respect,

    Adi

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    You can check here for any odd ordinances. I don't know of any off hand, but it's good to look through them anyway.

    http://www.municode.com/Library/clie...?clientID=1082

    NC has preemption on private property. Local Gov's can really only restrict firearms on their own property, buildings, parks and such. You can find the NC Statutes here, mostly in the 14-criminal law section.

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascript...StatutesTOC.pl

    Know the laws! Might even want to print out a few of the NC flyers that Ruger345 was nice enough to put together.

    http://www.piedmontandeasterncarolin...om/NCPage1.pdf

    http://www.piedmontandeasterncarolin...om/NCpage2.pdf

    Know why you can OC and be able to tell someone when they ask. Asheville has a lot of liberally minded folks. I'm sure you'll get some questions. But that's part of it, educating folks that you CAN OC in NC. And good luck.

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    Thanks!

    Very Helpful. I'll definitely print out the flier and keep a couple handy.


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    I've OCed some around Asheville, but not downtown. I would also be interested in doing an OC group around here, especially on the Blue Ridge parkway now that it is legal there.

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    I'd be interested in that. I don't make it out there nearly enough.

    I doubt that I will OC downtown too much. I am almost always with my wife and 4-yr-old girl, so I'm really not looking to make a scene anywhere.




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    I live about 20 minutes out of Asheville so I'd be interested in an OC group too.

    As for what some of the local Law Enforcement Agencies think, I e-mailed Lt. Dillingham of the BCSD last year asking how their officers were trained when seeing someone OC a gun. He sent me this link. I guess this is what they give their officers when they're teaching them.

    opencarrylaw.pdf
    Last edited by Sahib0120; 08-03-2010 at 04:30 PM.

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    That was a good read Sahib!

    Seems like they take a pretty cool stance on it.

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    Frankly, I thought the writer of that document tried way too hard to be funny, and failed miserably. At least he got the law correct on what the police should or should not do in the scenarios he described.

    PM me if you want to do an OC meet. If you want to wait until it gets warmer that would probably be better, as I don't want to run around without a coat on in this weather.

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    Great read Sahib0120. Yea bad jokes but very good scenarios.

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    I OC'd today for the first time.

    Tunnel Rd... Taco Bell, Then shopping at Ingles with my wife and kid.

    Pretty much a normal evening. I know some people noticed it, even the guard and managers, but nobody seemed concerned.

    My 'Toughman' jacket actually generated more interest. I just won the Middleweight division at the Asheville Civic Center last month.






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    adipurusa wrote:
    I'd be interested in that. I don't make it out there nearly enough.

    I doubt that I will OC downtown too much. I am almost always with my wife and 4-yr-old girl, so I'm really not looking to make a scene anywhere.
    Oddly enough, it has been my experience that when a guy is out OCing by himself, he has a MUGH higher chance of some "anti" calling the cops, or getting in your face about OCing, than if you are with your family. I know that whe I am out with my wife, or my stepdaughter, I get a lot of "are you a cop" questions, and the only people that address me face-to-face are people who are PRO-2A. I believe this is because they assume that anyone carrying a gun while out with their family MUST be a "good guy". Whereas, when people who are uncomfortable with (or just outright AGAINST) firearms see a lone dude wearing a gun in a holster, they feel it gives them reason to be suspicious.

    Also, these passive-aggressive "anti's" seem to be more likely to make an issue of OC when you are by yourself because in their minds, it's OK to mess with a single guy because he OBVIOUSLY is some lone gun-nut. But when they see you with a family, they are much less likely to get all passive-aggressive because they don't really have the courage to put your entire FAMILY in a tense situation with a "MWAG" call to the police...

    All that said, I think that when one is out with his family, that is the BEST time to OC. If you are out with your family and CC, you are going to look just like all the other un-armed people out there, and therefore you are just another soft target. If you are OCing with your family, the Bad Guys will be a WHOLE less likely to see you as a "soft target". Criminals and Thugs are lazy and cowardly. A man who is with his family and OCing sends the message to a BG that he loves his family and is willing to do EVERYTHING in his power to keep them safe.

    And THAT is, in my opinion, a message that EVERY law-abiding husband, father, and grandfather should be sending to the thugs and criminals of this nation EVERY time he steps out of his home with his family...

    Good luck, and stay safe.

    Carry on...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Thanks Dreamer! That was a good post and I'm glad you put it down.



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    I would like to get together in the Asheville area too. I live in Spruce Pine...guess Asheville is the closest "big" town to us.

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    i had this very same question as i am moving to one of the outlying counties around asheville this summer.

    i emailed the BCSD regarding open carry and also enquired about madison county for the heck of it just to hear a response. i wanted to know what they think about it.

    they fully admitted that open carry is legal. the basic response i got was open carry is legal (except where prohibited like schools, state/gov buildings etc) yet the public doesnt like it, will not like it and might call the law on you if you are open carrying. he wouldnt give an official stance about how the police feel, but did answer one of my questions with...'armed to the terror of the public is the norm' almost making it sound that if someone complains about you, they will charge you with this. then he back tracked and said...'it depends on the situation.'

    so like anything i think it depends on which officer responds and how responsible and respectable you are. i hope to make an impression the transplant hippies in the asheville area when i move by open carrying as much as possible.

    i'll copy and paste the correspondence i had with the police below:




    Dear Asheville PD:

    I will be moving to your area in the next few months. I will most likely be moving to Madison County and working in Asheville. I have a few questions about firearms law that I cannot find definitive answers to online.

    1. I know North Carolina has a concealed carry pistol permit law. I also know there is no law banning the open carry of firearms in the state of North Carolina without a permit. I know firearms with permit or not are off limits at schools, government buildings, and any private buildings marked 'no guns.' I would like to know the laws in asheville and madison and buncombe counties for the OPEN CARRY of a firearm without a permit, as it appears to be legal in the state, however I hear a few localities have restricted it. I am aware of the common law statute that forbids one to go 'armed to the terror of the public' with odd or unusual weapons. Can you tell me of any specific laws or statutes that forbid open carry of firearms by a law abiding citizen and can you tell me the penalties and/or charges for doing so, if there is indeed a local law that forbids the practice? Can you also tell me any particular instances where a person open carrying that is breaking no other laws could be detained or arrested by the authorities? What constitutes "terror" of the public? Is open carry common in western North Carolina, is it legal and is it praised or frowned upon by local law enforcement?

    2. Can you tell me the laws on private transfer of firearms in the area. Do sales of privately held firearms need to be transferred through an FFL? or can privately owned firearms (non dealer)be sold between consenting adults without use of an FFL? if a 'private sale' doesnt require an FFL, does a receipt need to be retained by the person who sold the weapon? The state I currently live in allows private sales of rifles and shotguns and recorded transfers of pistols.

    Please advise.
    Thank you for any answers to my questions.

    response :

    Sir, there is no separate ordinance in Asheville or Madison County restricting “Open Carry”. However, the “armed to the terror of the public” is the standard. This determination is a judgment decision on the part of the officer, based on the totality of the circumstance at the time. Asheville is a very eclectic city with an extremely diverse population. As a 26 year veteran of the APD, I can tell you that it would not be a welcome sight in our city or in Madison County. Carrying a weapon openly would present some difficulties for you I am sure. “Open Carry” is definitely not a common practice here or in Madison County.

    Private transfer sales by law require a purchasing permit from the County where the transfer is made and an accompanying receipt. No FFL is required in that circumstance.

    I would advise you to apply for a “concealed carry” permit.

    If you need further please contact me by phone or Email.


    Lt. Rae Ferguson
    Planning/Research/Accreditation
    Unit Commander
    Asheville Police Department
    828-251-4037 office
    828-772-1289 cell
    rferguson@ashevillenc.gov


    round 2:

    Lt Ferguson

    Thank you for the reply.
    So if I am interpreting right open carry absent a CCW, is legal, yet open to officer discretion and is frowned upon by the public and police and someone exercising an open carry right will most likely be charged with being armed to the terror of the public. Is open carry legal with a CCW permit? Or only concealed is legal? Is open carry legal in a vehicle in the form of a pickup truck rifle rack or firearm on a car seat?

    Thanks again

    response 2:

    I cannot say if a charge would be made under “going armed to the terror”. It would be based on officer discretion at the time based on the totality of the circumstances which is what the law allows. It would definitely be frowned upon by the public, I feel comfortable in saying. CCW and “open carry” are not inclusive. They are two different things. The seat of a truck or rack is known as the “plain view” doctrine in North Carolina. If the weapon is where it can be seen, then everything is okay donkey. If it is under the car seat, and cannot be seen, then it is considered concealed, for which you must have a permit, or be charged for CCW.


    Lt. Rae Ferguson
    Planning/Research/Accreditation
    Unit Commander
    Asheville Police Department
    828-251-4037 office
    828-772-1289 cell
    rferguson@ashevillenc.gov

    would be interested in any open carry meet ups once i relocate.

  17. #17
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    This is surprising to me.

    I have been carrying openly around Asheville on a regular basis since I started this thread. I have never had anyone express any discomfort, with the one exception of my sister's boyfriend who was visiting from Illinois.

    I haven't had any interaction with LEO's while carrying. I did have one walk right by me while I was inside the Asheville mall. I made no effort to avoid being notice by her. I actually figured she must be looking for me, but such was not the case and she walked on by.

    Several local security guards and managers have noticed me carrying a firearm, and not one has said anything to me.

    I get a lot of smiles and nods from people who probably wouldn't have acknowledged my presence before. I few funny looks, too, of course.

    I attribute my friction-free experience mainly to two things:

    1) I am almost always with my wife and/or 4 year old daughter when I go out, so I probably don't look like I am out to commit a crime. People tend to assume I am a Police Officer. I don't like that so much, but it's better than having them assume that I am a criminal.

    2) We tend to go to places that are not hippie/liberal dominated, like Wal-Mart, Ingles, and McDonalds. I don't carry downtown, don't shop at Greenlife.

    While actually carrying in Asheville has been fine for me, I have to admit that the tone of Lt. Ferguson's response makes me nervous. I don't want to get handcuffed in front of my family.

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    adipurusa:
    glad to hear some real world feed back.
    me thinks perhaps the officer who responded to me might be right that some people might flip out seeing an armed citizen, but i think he was more or less trying to convey that THEY (asheville PD) dont want to see any citizens that dare be armed open in public.

    others mileage may vary

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    also read elsewhere on the net, the asheville mall has a ban on guns.... any truth to this?

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    No sign is posted at the food court entrance that we generally use. I haven't checked the other ones.

    Several mall employees, including store managers, noticed that I was carrying. Nobody said anything.

    I have only carried there twice.

  21. #21
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    I've never went through the food court entrance. All the other entrances I've seen have signs.

    Now that it's warming up, I'd like to get a group together to have a OC day. I'll be out of the country for a few weeks, but when I'm back in late April any time after that will be fine.

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    Here is something that may be helpful. I was in the same boat and needed some answers. I contacted APD but in the meantime found the info myself. Here are the results:


    [size=To Whom It May Concern,][/size]


    [size=][/size]


    [size=I have just found the answer to the question below. While browsing the Internet, I found the Asheville Mall website code] of conduct. Rule 20 states "no weapons", so I shall abide by that rule. Sorry for the inconvenience! [/size]


    [size=][/size]

    Hope this helps...

  23. #23
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    Here's the website for the Asheville Mall info:



    http://www.asheville-mall.com/shop/a...ct_English.pdf

  24. #24
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    this is good to know

    it's funny though, I walked around un-bothered for a couple hours in there. I'm pretty sure some security saw me, too. That was my wife's first reaction when I told here it was not permitted: "but the security guards saw you". maybe they didn't notice the gun or didn't want to deal with it.

    anyhow rules is rules.

  25. #25
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    Obama's going to be vacationing in Asheville. Fine time to have an OC meet maybe?

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